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European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

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Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#31

Post by bix6 »

jacquesm wrote: post #18
kogus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I am also gratified to see the EU take steps toward independence from US foreign policy. Independence doesn't mean enmity; it just means that the EU and US should both be adults in the room, reaching decisions on equal terms. If one takes a longer view of things, the period from WW2 to now is very much an anomaly reflecting relative European weakness in the aftermath of that war's physical and moral d…

I wouldn't say it was weakness rather than a sense of disgust about anything war related. Europe is tired of it, and precisely because of that may well end up in another major war.

That has more to do with their geography than their disgust no?

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#32

Post by saubeidl »

F3nd0 wrote: post #28
saubeidl wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't really see Russia as an adversary under Trump. Which begs the question, why should the EU see China as an adversary? That's mostly an American thing, the Pacific doesn't really concern us. Maybe alliances will reshuffle in the future?

Why should the EU not see an expansive authoritarian superpower as an adversary, or, at the very least, a real threat to its continued existence and sovereignty?

They're on the opposite end of the world, our interests do not conflict, but even overlap (i.e. they're the only other major power taking climate change seriously)

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#33

Post by lm28469 »

saubeidl wrote: post #21
tr352 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU needs China. No green deal without Chinese batteries, solar cells and rare earth metals.

And China needs the EU. No rising Chinese middle class without the world's largest wealthy consumer market. A match made in heaven ;)

Like Russia's gas and Germany's industry ;)

Or the EU relying on the US army for defense ;)

We're not in the post ww2 world illusion or world peace through commerce, mutual dependencies clearly don't stop nationalist interests. Trump shattered the illusion with his illegal meme tier tariffs, now we're slowly going back to empires dealing with their friends while fucking over anyone else.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#34

Post by bix6 »

F3nd0 wrote: post #28
saubeidl wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't really see Russia as an adversary under Trump. Which begs the question, why should the EU see China as an adversary? That's mostly an American thing, the Pacific doesn't really concern us. Maybe alliances will reshuffle in the future?

Why should the EU not see an expansive authoritarian superpower as an adversary, or, at the very least, a real threat to its continued existence and sovereignty?

You talking about China or the US here?

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#35

Post by saubeidl »

lm28469 wrote: post #33
saubeidl wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And China needs the EU. No rising Chinese middle class without the world's largest wealthy consumer market. A match made in heaven ;)

Like Russia's gas and Germany's industry ;) Or the EU relying on the US army for defense ;) We're not in the post ww2 world illusion or world peace through commerce, mutual dependencies clearly don't stop nationalist interests. Trump shattered the illusion with his illegal meme tier tariffs, now we're slowly going back to empires dealing with their friends while fucking over anyone else.

There is no conflict in our nationalist interests though. We are too far apart, unless we split up Russia between us...

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#38

Post by [deleted] »

usrnm wrote: post #8
jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

> The damage to our future world order I don't think "damage" is the right word, especially outside of the US. Changes aren't necessarily bad, and, as someone living in the EU, I actually like the current trend.

[deleted]

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#39

Post by lawn »

saubeidl wrote: post #7
SilverElfin wrote: post #5

Geopolitically this rift between the US and EU is great for adversaries like Russia and China.

The US doesn't really see Russia as an adversary under Trump. Which begs the question, why should the EU see China as an adversary? That's mostly an American thing, the Pacific doesn't really concern us. Maybe alliances will reshuffle in the future?

Democracies and authoritarian regimes naturally oppose each other, which is why the EU and China will never be true allies.

Coincidentally it's also why the US and EU are growing further apart.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#40

Post by toomuchtodo »

F3nd0 wrote: post #28
saubeidl wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't really see Russia as an adversary under Trump. Which begs the question, why should the EU see China as an adversary? That's mostly an American thing, the Pacific doesn't really concern us. Maybe alliances will reshuffle in the future?

Why should the EU not see an expansive authoritarian superpower as an adversary, or, at the very least, a real threat to its continued existence and sovereignty?

China needs Europe to support its export economy because there will never be enough domestic demand to prevent a deflationary spiral. Europe is a rational actor China can expect to act rationally in trade, and Europe can benefit from that.

The US has nothing to offer Europe except LNG that Europe cannot produce itself, or obtain from China at better price or quality. Canada has ~200 years of LNG reserves and can ship to Europe from LNG Canada.

https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/imports/united-s...

https://ember-energy.org/data/china-cleantech-exports-data-e...

The True Cost of China's Falling Prices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45876691 - November 2025

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/americas-self-d...

> In 1995, China accounted for less than five percent of global manufacturing output. By 2010, that number had jumped to around a quarter, and today it stands at nearly a third.

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