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Steam Frame

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Re: Steam Frame

#621

Post by surajrmal »

tete wrote: post #557
contrarian1234 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is also just Linux. But i cant install Debian on my phone

Android isn't "just Linux". It's a heavily modified kernel, it's often an even closed source bootloader in many cases and it's completely untrue for userspace, where it incorporates stuff from other OSs (BSDs, etc.). There are huge amounts of blobs. Yes, there technically is a Linux kernel, but if it's "just Linux" then macOS is "just FreeBSD", because grep -V tells you so, because it has dtrace, because you run (ran…

The problem is that you're talking about the Linux desktop ecosystem whereas the op could be talking about the kernel. Both are just Linux (and the fact we've not evolved our nomenclature to differentiate the two is surprising). Also, fwiw, the android kernel is no longer heavily modified. Most of the custom stuff has been upstreamed.

Re: Steam Frame

#622

Post by surajrmal »

sensanaty wrote: post #575
contrarian1234 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that doesn't in any way mean you can install an alternate OS. But i get your point that at least you can run Arch stuff. Isnt Arch ARM support unofficial? (its been ages since i tried) You dont hear of people running it on RPis for example

If it's anything like the Deck, then the version of SteamOS on it won't be locked down in any way whatsoever. You can install Windows or any other distro you want on the Deck with 0 issues (other than regular ones you'd experience anyways on any regular computer, nothing to do with Valve locking anything down).

The steam deck was not arm. Unlike the steam machine page, the steam frame page does not insinuate you can put a custom OS on it. On top of custom drivers which are not necessarily upstreamed, qualcomm socs always require closed source userspace daemons which are coupled to the kernel.

Re: Steam Frame

#623

Post by surajrmal »

embedding-shape wrote: post #526
mavamaarten wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well. It doesn't say in any docs or specs, but for what it's worth, Valve's hardware has always been open like that. You're free to install windows on your steam deck, for example.

> Well. It doesn't say in any docs or specs, but for what it's worth They do hint that you can install a different OS on it: > Just like any SteamOS device, install your own apps, open a browser, do what you want: It's your PC. Every other SteamOS device does allow you to install whatever OS on the device, so seems Frame will be the same, judging by that landing page blurb.

They also explicitly mention os. I'm highly doubtful a product with a Qualcomm soc will support installing an alternative os.

Re: Steam Frame

#624

Post by imtringued »

xandrius wrote: post #369
hadlock wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

User replaceable batteries are... fine? Expected; preferred even? 40 hours on a single charge is more than adequate, imo, and if the controllers were too light that might actually bother some players.

Nothing against user-replaceable batteries, just that they use AA batteries. I was expecting something a bit more long lasting and rechargeable via USB.

https://www.reichelt.com/de/en/shop/product/lithium-ion_batt...

I'm not trying to sell you on these in particular, it's just that I am struggling to find "non-German" results. Go search for them on ebay or a local store.

Re: Steam Frame

#625

Post by starkrights »

bob1029 wrote: post #607
modeless wrote: post #60

Foveated streaming! That's a great idea. Foveated rendering is complicated to implement with current rendering APIs in a way that actually improves performance, but foveated streaming seems like a much easier win that applies to all content automatically. And the dedicated 6 GHz dongle should do a much better job at streaming than typical wifi routers. > Just like any SteamOS device, install your own apps, open a bro…

> 2160 x 2160 LCD (per eye) 72-144Hz refresh rate I question that we could not create a special purpose video codec that handles this without trickery. The "per eye" part sounds spooky at first, but how much information is typically different between these frames? The mutual information is probably 90%+ in most VR games. If we were to enhance something like x264 to encode the 2nd display as a residual of the 1st disp…

I'm entirely unfamiliar with the vr rendering space, so all I have to go on is what (I think) your comment implies.

Is the current state of VR rendering really just rendering and transporting two videostreams independent of eachother? Surely there has to be at least some academic prior-art on the subject, no?

Re: Steam Frame

#626

Post by gilfoy »

Bombthecat wrote: post #560
somenameforme wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like you're describing dactyl nightmare. [1] I played a version where you were attacking pterodactyls instead of other players, but it was more or less identical. That experience is what led me to believe that VR would eventually take over. I still, more or less, believe it even though it's yet to happen. I think the big barrier remains price and experiences that are focusing more on visual fidelity over…

Nah, people spend 700 on consoles, the biggest barriers is comfort. As long as the headsets are heavy, I won't get one, no matter how great the graphics are or how good the game is

Bigscreen Beyond 2 is 107g

Re: Steam Frame

#627

Post by egoisticalgoat »

hadlock wrote: post #138
vunderba wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine it exceeding ~1k USD - they've got to at least keep it reasonably competitive with the Meta Quest which is around half that.

I realize this might not be the case for everyone, but for me, $600 premium is easily worth it to "jailbreak" the meta game store. Steam was here for ~25 years and I expect it to be around in another 25 years. My Quest 1, an absolute Dinosaur of the VR world now, 2019, barely works at this point, is out of support and Meta still haven't open sourced the firmware for it.

Seconding this, I love my Quest 1 but at this point it's looking more and more like it'll turn into a brick at some point. The Frame looks like the next best non-meta alternative, and a damn good one at that.

Re: Steam Frame

#628

Post by oceansky »

surajrmal wrote: post #621
tete wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android isn't "just Linux". It's a heavily modified kernel, it's often an even closed source bootloader in many cases and it's completely untrue for userspace, where it incorporates stuff from other OSs (BSDs, etc.). There are huge amounts of blobs. Yes, there technically is a Linux kernel, but if it's "just Linux" then macOS is "just FreeBSD", because grep -V tells you so, because it has dtrace, because you run (ran…

The problem is that you're talking about the Linux desktop ecosystem whereas the op could be talking about the kernel. Both are just Linux (and the fact we've not evolved our nomenclature to differentiate the two is surprising). Also, fwiw, the android kernel is no longer heavily modified. Most of the custom stuff has been upstreamed.

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!

Re: Steam Frame

#630

Post by m4rtink »

jjcm wrote: post #266
Insanity wrote: post #70

This is going to be an instant buy for me, and my first VR device ever. I've used the previous Steam VR headset over at a friends' place many times, but never bit the bullet to get one myself. The fact that this can run standalone, doesn't have a bunch of wires dangling from it, and is pretty much a fully working Linux box makes this am almost on-brainer for me. I do _hope_ the price is reasonable though, if it ends…

> The fact that this can run standalone Just make sure to wait for reviews on this front - it almost certainly can't run AAA games at the native resolution + fps. Likely it'll only be able to run lower req games on device.

Sure, but there are already quite a few pretty nice looking games on Quest 3 running locally, so it can be done and should not be discounted as a gimmick.

It has pretty important benefits - lowest possible latency & being able to just pick the headset any play anywhere.

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