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Valve is about to win the console generation

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Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#271

Post by Orygin »

sedatk wrote: post #33
SchemaLoad wrote: post #21

I think the hardest battle is going to be with anti cheat. The anti cheat that developers want basically requires dystopian levels of restrictions which are against everything valve has done on SteamOS so far. Personally I'd love if we all just went back to playing on personal servers with your real life friends or people you otherwise trust. But I don't think this is would go over well with the average online gamer.

If anti-virus software can function in user mode, anti-cheat software can too. https://www.theverge.com/news/692637/microsoft-windows-kerne...

We know, and the game devs know too. But Kernel anti cheat is not a solution but simply a marketing feature to make their users think they try.

Just seeing all the gamers requesting a kernel AC for CS2, saying VAC does not work; but now they have banned a lot of cheaters and seem to have less cheaters than the new Battlefield which has kernel AC.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#272

Post by James_K »

bsder wrote: post #133
ethmarks wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What non-gaming use cases do you imagine people might use these for? For normal computer use (reading email, watching videos, doing spreadsheets), there are much cheaper and better options available. If somebody wanted a Steam Machine specifically, it'd be for the GPU. If you needed a lot of GPU compute (for AI or blockchain or whatever), it'd be cheaper to buy or rent a dedicated server with Nvidia H100s rather than…

> What non-gaming use cases do you imagine people might use these for? Media box under your TV? Right now I don't have a lot of options that also don't inundate me with ads. Sure, I can build one, but if Valve can put this out at a price that makes me go "Nah. Not worth building it myself." that's a win.

You can run media from a potato. This will be at least 5x the cost of a cheap mini-PC. And you can't forget power draw. The Steam Machine has a 30W CPU, and I'd guess about 60W RAM which would add up to something like $120+ annually where a mini PC would cost closer to $7. 5 years later and the Steam Machine has eaten it's cost in power. Assuming it costs $500 like most consoles, you are looking at a total 5-year cost of $1100 where a mini-PC would be $100–200.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#273

Post by walletdrainer »

swiftcoder wrote: post #262
walletdrainer wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily, the anticheat will end up much easier to defeat on Linux.

This depends heavily on how customised the linux is. Back in the day Amazon had to fork Android to add kernel-level support for DRM, otherwise the studios weren't going to permit streaming video on Fire tablets. One could imagine Valve adding an optional kernel DRM module to solve the same problem.

You still lose because the dev team has to split their attention.

And anyway I (and many other people!) have valid keys for basically all widevine streams extracted from supposedly secure android devices. That DRM approach ended up failing miserably and torrent sites are full of WEB-DLs.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#274

Post by pjmlp »

theshrike79 wrote: post #227
pjmlp wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some PS were open (still have my PS2Linux) and XBoxes have dev mode, even if it is stuck on UWP, and there was XNA as well. Turns out most open consoles are full of either crapware or emulators, which is the reason Sony and Microsoft eventually gave up on some openess.

Random trivia: The PS2 Linux was purely for tax evasion. EU had a higher tax rate for "gaming computers" than "generic computers" so Sony slapped Linux on the console to get better profits.

Not at all, you're mixing up with YA BASIC, that came with PS 2 demo disc.

People that weren't there keep mixing channels on this one.

To acquire PS2 Linux, you had to pay additionally 300 euros for the Linux distribution, the PS2 hard disk, and cables that would only work in monitors using sync on green signal.

Initially the price was much higher, and got reduced to around 300 in 2004.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#275

Post by nicce »

TheRoque wrote: post #51

I hardly understand the headline. Steam machine is just a computer, and since it can be used for other stuff than playing games, then it can't have the cheap pricing of a console. Most consoles are sold at a loss, and the benefits are made when selling console-exclusive games. If you sell something at a loss, but users aren't forced to buy your games, then you're not gonna make any money. Hence, the Steam Machine (AK…

> think: battlefield, call of duty, valorant, league of legends... the biggest games basically

Do people actually play these on console? I think most people still use Windows for these?

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#276

Post by Aerroon »

slightwinder wrote: post #257
wraptile wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not winner games these days. Gaming trends are so fast that indie games like the one where you play a duck with a gun is what's driving the gaming community these days.

That's a misconception. Majority of players are with the big Franchises, and they stay with them. The variety-gamers who are playing multiple different games are a minority, though they are a big crowd, loud and have for obvious reasons more attention, leading to this misconception. For example, Escape from Duckov, which you are speaking about, had at it's peak "just" roughly as many players as Battlefield 6 has on a…

I don't think it's entirely the case. They are on franchises, but not the ones you think of - they're playing live service games that have been around for years. Games like League of Legends, Counterstrike, Fortnite, Dota, WoW, PUBG etc. Games like Battlefield are up there, but I don't think they're the games people mainly play over the years. (Although Fifa and GTA definitely are.)

For example, the top 10 games in Korean PC bangs last week were:

1. League of Legends

2. PUBG (I think)

3. Fifa

4. Valorant

5. Overwatch 2

6. Sudden Attack (a KR FPS game)

7. Maple Story

8. Lost Ark

9. Dungeon Fighter Online

10. StarCraft (Brood War, I believe)

The next 15: Diablo 2 Resurrection, World of Warcraft, Diablo 4, Lineage, Eternal Return, Path of Exile, Warcraft 3, Black Desert, Cyphers, Aion, Path of Exile 2, Diablo 3, StarCraft 2, Tales Runner, Final Fantasy 14.

Lineage and Brood War weren't even made in this millennium!

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#277

Post by chmod775 »

crote wrote: post #207
wraptile wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not winner games these days. Gaming trends are so fast that indie games like the one where you play a duck with a gun is what's driving the gaming community these days.

Sure, but those AAA games still exist, and people still want to play them. As a gamer, why would you want to spend a few hundred bucks on a gaming box, when it isn't able to play the biggest hits? Who would want to deliberately limit their ecosystem to indie games? There's a nonzero chance that BF6/GTA6/etc becomes a thing that everyone wants to play. If all your friends are raging about how much fun it is and are al…

Nonsense. People don't buy a PS5 and regret they can't play League of Legends. There's been games exclusive to one platform or the other since the dawn of time, yet people still buy them for the games they do have.

That thing is going to run a ton of games that other consoles don't.

Few customers are going to replace their PC with it, but if you have the cash and want to add a sleek console to your living room that will also stream from your desktop in a pinch, it's probably a great deal.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#278

Post by embedding-shape »

Orygin wrote: post #265
embedding-shape wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be a good plan. Make HL3 a VR game since you built VR experience by making Alyx, take it to the next level by launching your own VR headset, everything is perfectly made together and HL3 launch would be as big if not bigger than GTA, and you optimize it for your own hardware.

HL3 is most likely not a VR game as Valve said they aren't working on a first party VR title (plus data mining seems to confirm). Plus they already have Alyx as the masterpiece, and it was already made with their own VR headset in mind: the Valve Index. Maybe HLX will have some kind of VR interaction possible, as they want to push technology further with each Half life game.

Valve also said something like "ARM gaming won't be a thing for us for a very long time", but seems tides can change :) I wouldn't put too much weight into any publisher/developer saying what they aren't doing, even if they were working on HL3, they'd keep that under very tight wraps.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#280

Post by rkangel »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #60
robomc wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I mean... can I play Fortnite, BF6 or the upcoming GTA on steamOS?

Probably not. Kernel level anti cheat is the problem. I know BF6 isn't proton safe. Fortnite is the same. GTA VI will probably run single player on proton fine, GTA V does. Multiplayer will probably not. The multiplayer with kernel level anti cheat will keep Sony safe through at least another generation; Microsoft is less safe as they're so vulnerable this generation anyway.

There's a circular opportunity though - if the SteamOS market share gets anywhere, then it might become worth it for these developers to support anti-cheat on the that platform. Some systems (notably BattleEye) actually have Linux support, they just need to enable it, but there's no incentive for them to do so.
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