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Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

blog.getbootstrap.com

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Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#81
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole "lets use jQuery without learning Javascript" thing didn't work out so well for the community.

jQuery might as well be a different language, like c++ vs. c. Can you learn c++ without c, or assembler without learning machine code? Sure. Actually, in many ways I think learning jQuery before learning vanilla javascript can be an advantage. jQuery is heavy on functional programming techniques, list comprehensions, and such-like. As long as you learn well and don't cut corners I don't see any problems with "learnin…

I disagree, jQuery is more of a compatibility layer. Think of it (in a way) like an ORM for various SQL backends. They allow you to change between different SQL implementations without needing to learn the various nuances of each engine. The same can be said for jQuery, allowing you to modify classes even though browsers implement that DOM property differently.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#82

Bootstrap creator here. tl;dr: First, thanks for the love everyone! Jacob and I love seeing people as excited about the future of Bootstrap as us. We're hopeful that this is just the beginning of it. And now, onto answering some of the questions/comments folks have brought up here thus far. Jacob left over a month ago and my last day is next Friday (10/5). He's going to Obvious, and (announcing it here for the first…

All the best two you both. I can say with certainty that many people in the web dev world love BS and are continuing to eagerly await new changes that will come as a result of the moves.

Best of luck at Github, huge win for you both.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#83
Bootstrap badly needs a really good tutorial. I'm thinking of making one, if anybody wants to help out, my email address is in my profile.

I was thinking I'd build a simple and attractive site from scratch and make the tutorial a step-by-step of how it was done, so even somebody with no HTML or CSS experience could do it - but also so that even experienced programmers would quickly learn all sorts of cool things that Bootstrap can do.

This is how I'm learning Rails right now - the Rails tutorial is amazing. Bootstrap needs something similar.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#84
post #83

Bootstrap badly needs a really good tutorial. I'm thinking of making one, if anybody wants to help out, my email address is in my profile. I was thinking I'd build a simple and attractive site from scratch and make the tutorial a step-by-step of how it was done, so even somebody with no HTML or CSS experience could do it - but also so that even experienced programmers would quickly learn all sorts of cool things that…

Yes! Bootstrap has some hierarchy things you have to pick up on to get desired effects. Some kind of guide would be nice. I'm not sure if they've updated it since but a few months ago I was building a layout and had to resort to the inspector tool to figure out the exact way they did things in the examples.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#85

Bootstrap creator here. tl;dr: First, thanks for the love everyone! Jacob and I love seeing people as excited about the future of Bootstrap as us. We're hopeful that this is just the beginning of it. And now, onto answering some of the questions/comments folks have brought up here thus far. Jacob left over a month ago and my last day is next Friday (10/5). He's going to Obvious, and (announcing it here for the first…

Foundation Evangelist, ZURB's Chief Instigator here. As a leader, it's often difficult to see your hard working employees move on to other opportunities. And you hope deep down that the lessons they learn from you along the way will be remembered as influencial in their career. Mark had a great run at ZURB before Twitter. I wish him the best. For ZURB's current employees, and the ones that put thinking into developin…

Hey Bryan, good to hear from you again. It's been roughly two years since we even spoke to each other, let alone saw each other in public. Before I dive into it, I have always and will continue to always have nothing but the best wishes for ZURB. Now, to get to it.

You did teach me a lot, Bryan, and I know the (edit: removed the number) ex-ZURBians would agree with you on that. You taught me about design process, design thinking, and how to communicate well with clients and other designers. Moreover, if you hadn't brought me out to California, I wouldn't be where I am today. Thanks again for that, I really do owe you one there. You taught us a lot more, but we don't need to go into that as I'm sure everything that drove us away has changed for the better.

Yes, Bootstrap emerged from my work at ZURB, but more importantly, from the entire web community. Before I redesigned ZURB.com or wrote nearly the entire ZURB Style Guide (at least the CSS and Design Patterns sections), frameworks and style guides were already in high demand and influencing our work at ZURB. You can take a look at the CSS section here: http://d.pr/i/uoGb. I have screenshots of every page of the project from right before I left.

It's important to note that I never worked on Foundation, nor had any idea it was in the works until it was released on 10/14/2011, two months after Bootstrap was released (https://twitter.com/ZURB/status/124984359135608832). In fact, it was Dave Gamache, former ZURB designer and now former Twitter designer, who wrote a majority of Foundation 1.0 after I left ZURB. Go ahead and ask him (@dhg) about that for more details.

However, I did copy and paste code, but never from Foundation. The things Bryan is referring to are "how to" docs, lorem ipsum and filler text, and examples for the address tag, emphasis tags, lists, and blockquotes. Looking at the very first commit to Bootstrap (https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/tree/eb81782cdbdc68aaeb...), four months before we released v1.0, you can see that content there. I have made no attempt to hide it, nor could I. In the hundreds of following commits, I removed nearly all that code before launching BS1.0, but I missed some (the items listed above). Within days, I removed it and replaced it with my own code, copy, and examples. Edit: for full transparency, you can see Bootstrap 1.0 and the offending content at http://d.pr/i/Rn9r.

I made an honest mistake that any developer can by using code from the work I did at my previous employer, but I also fully rectified it immediately by removing all the offending code and replacing it with my own.

I made a mistake early on by using the work I had done at ZURB as a basis for everything I have done since then. In the theoretical sense, that is never frowned upon, but in the practical, it is, and I'm sorry about that. But I never ripped Foundation, nor ever intend to. If anything, you need to take a fresh look at Foundation 3 and ask yourself who's really taking code from the other's framework. (edit for clarification).

Ever since Bootstrap 2.0 came out, you've ripped nearly every single component we created in our framework and added it to Foundation, including: the basics of our grid system, navbar, responsive navbar, breadcrums, alerts, labels, tooltips, popovers, prepended and appended inputs, breadcrumbs, accordion, progress bars, image styles, and more. All of those were in Bootstrap first, and you've added them without even batting an eye. We've also added things that other frameworks and products added, but when you're calling me out for ripping something I never had access to, you really need to take a step back and look at what you've done as well.

I have no illusions about how I got to where I am: I thank everyone profusely, day in and day out, for making it possible. I made the mistake of using the work I did at ZURB to start a brand new project, and I apologize for doing it that way and corrected the mistake within days. I never stole from Foundation, nor do I ever plan to.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foundation Evangelist, ZURB's Chief Instigator here. As a leader, it's often difficult to see your hard working employees move on to other opportunities. And you hope deep down that the lessons they learn from you along the way will be remembered as influencial in their career. Mark had a great run at ZURB before Twitter. I wish him the best. For ZURB's current employees, and the ones that put thinking into developin…

Hey Bryan, good to hear from you again. It's been roughly two years since we even spoke to each other, let alone saw each other in public. Before I dive into it, I have always and will continue to always have nothing but the best wishes for ZURB. Now, to get to it. You did teach me a lot, Bryan, and I know the (edit: removed the number) ex-ZURBians would agree with you on that. You taught me about design process, des…

@markdotto, thank you for your response @chiefinstigator's comments. Great to hear your perspective. I don't think you needed to be on the defensive as much as you are. All one needs to do is look at the Bootstrap Github page: all your code, its documentation, issue tracking, the sheer number of commits, etc. to know that you and Jacob worked your absolute fucking assess off with/for an absolute fucking shit ton of developers over the last few years. I understand both the ZURB and Bootstrap teams' feelings are raw considering how much time you all put in, and I'm just writing to hope that things will smooth over as time goes on. Both groups contributed so much to the web community for them not to. Again, great work guys, you've changed the world for the better.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#87

Bootstrap creator here. tl;dr: First, thanks for the love everyone! Jacob and I love seeing people as excited about the future of Bootstrap as us. We're hopeful that this is just the beginning of it. And now, onto answering some of the questions/comments folks have brought up here thus far. Jacob left over a month ago and my last day is next Friday (10/5). He's going to Obvious, and (announcing it here for the first…

Thank you for bootstrap, its a very wonderful tool.It's success is evident from the large developer community.With tools like jets rap and bootsnip , this is just the beginning.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Bryan, good to hear from you again. It's been roughly two years since we even spoke to each other, let alone saw each other in public. Before I dive into it, I have always and will continue to always have nothing but the best wishes for ZURB. Now, to get to it. You did teach me a lot, Bryan, and I know the (edit: removed the number) ex-ZURBians would agree with you on that. You taught me about design process, des…

@markdotto, thank you for your response @chiefinstigator's comments. Great to hear your perspective. I don't think you needed to be on the defensive as much as you are. All one needs to do is look at the Bootstrap Github page: all your code, its documentation, issue tracking, the sheer number of commits, etc. to know that you and Jacob worked your absolute fucking assess off with/for an absolute fucking shit ton of d…

Thanks man, appreciate that, and I hear you. I tried to maintain my cool and approach it as diplomatic and honestly as I could. This has been brewing for awhile and we have never responded, so I wanted to give as much context as possible. There is still much that could be said, but we'll save that for another time. I truly think all of us are just interested in making stuff on the Internet, and that's all I really care about: making awesome stuff with awesome people. Thanks again. <3

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#89

Bootstrap creator here. tl;dr: First, thanks for the love everyone! Jacob and I love seeing people as excited about the future of Bootstrap as us. We're hopeful that this is just the beginning of it. And now, onto answering some of the questions/comments folks have brought up here thus far. Jacob left over a month ago and my last day is next Friday (10/5). He's going to Obvious, and (announcing it here for the first…

Foundation Evangelist, ZURB's Chief Instigator here. As a leader, it's often difficult to see your hard working employees move on to other opportunities. And you hope deep down that the lessons they learn from you along the way will be remembered as influencial in their career. Mark had a great run at ZURB before Twitter. I wish him the best. For ZURB's current employees, and the ones that put thinking into developin…

Hey, first off - I absolutely (I love hearing about these connections/relationships between developers and companies!)

I think that the emergence of two of the best html5/css frameworks out there is a great thing and can only help developers and the internet as a whole. Let's not forget the spirit of Open Source - the ability to share, build upon, and innovate on the hardwork of others and in turn build better code, better products, and a better experience for both developers and end-users. Rinse. Repeat. That's a good thing.

I applaud you all for your contributions to the development community. Both of you and your respective teams are an inspiration to not just myself but I'm sure tens of thousands of other developers as well. Keep up the great work, keep releasing code, and have fun doing it.

NOW. @chiefinstigator - I'm working on a project based on Foundation 3.1.1 and am attempting to use the sub-nav navigation menu, and from what I can tell, none of the examples in the documentation work. Unless I'm supposed to be changing the 'active' class to the currently selected menu item manually... what gives? Here is the Gist - https://gist.github.com/2980502#file_f3_subnav.html i've included the navigation plugin and made the call to $(document).foundationNavigation(); as described in the documentation. What am I missing? One note, on each of the dd elements I have a method that is handling the onclick() event. Could this be the problem? (Just thought about that...)

EDIT/ADDED: Can we get a little friendly competition going on here.... ZURB and Bootstrap users/evangelists alike..... what's going on here?

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#90
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foundation Evangelist, ZURB's Chief Instigator here. As a leader, it's often difficult to see your hard working employees move on to other opportunities. And you hope deep down that the lessons they learn from you along the way will be remembered as influencial in their career. Mark had a great run at ZURB before Twitter. I wish him the best. For ZURB's current employees, and the ones that put thinking into developin…

Hey, first off - I absolutely (I love hearing about these connections/relationships between developers and companies!) I think that the emergence of two of the best html5/css frameworks out there is a great thing and can only help developers and the internet as a whole. Let's not forget the spirit of Open Source - the ability to share, build upon, and innovate on the hardwork of others and in turn build better code,…

Well said.

If you need support for the top bar, shoot us an email, foundation@zurb.com. Happy to help.

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