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The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

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Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#851
post #840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does it matter if the production cost is higher than the face value? You can buy pennies or nickels in bulk, melt them down, and turn a tidy profit. That's literally a "money printing glitch" Every penny or nickel that gets lost in the gutter, stored in a coin collection, used as a washer or shim, turned into jewelery, or sets around in jars unused, represents a financial loss to the Treasury. It's called seign…

No, you can't. According to [1] the scrap value of a penny is $0.0084771. The cost of production is $0.037. The relevant question is if a penny creates more than $0.037 of economic value before it is lost or destroyed. [1]: http://coinapps.com/base-metal/coin/calculator/

Okay, metal prices are low at the moment, but post-1982 pennies did have a melt value of approx 2c not long ago. And it shows nickels are still currently worth more than 5c.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#852
post #840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can't. According to [1] the scrap value of a penny is $0.0084771. The cost of production is $0.037. The relevant question is if a penny creates more than $0.037 of economic value before it is lost or destroyed. [1]: http://coinapps.com/base-metal/coin/calculator/

Okay, metal prices are low at the moment, but post-1982 pennies did have a melt value of approx 2c not long ago. And it shows nickels are still currently worth more than 5c.

Sure, if the coins are worth more as scrap that’s a problem. So why isn’t that the justification?

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always pick them up. Every penny buys enough pasta to keep you alive for another 15 minutes. So in case I ever go broke, I've staved off my eventual starvation by 15 minutes.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

It was always just an estimate but today I verified it with a chatbot before I made any claim about the time. Caught it in a mistake too, which I untangled by reminding it that food calories are actually kilocalories.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#854

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay exact change whenever I can. And on the occasions where I can only make (exact change + simple amount), I often get deer-in-headlights looks from cashiers who can't do mental arithmetic and apparently haven't learned how to get the machine to understand payments of more than one physical bill or coin.

I legitimately don't understand why people object to this strongly enough to downvote it without comment.

The majority of the comment was spent on being disparaging towards people who work in retail.

(Entering a discussion about that kind of topic can be a pretty sure way to invoke Godwin's Law, so the most sane and civil option is to downvote and walk away.)

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#855
Sometimes, they return.

Recently, I read a post by an online musician friend that someone made a tip of 5 rubles with a banknote in Armenia - too low a sum to bother exchanging it in a foreign country. I was perplexed [1] because I don't recall ever [2] seeing such banknote - the lowest I remember seeing was 10 - and found that yes, it was introduced in 1998, discontinued and withdrawn from circulation in 2001 due to inflation and apparently reintroduced (maybe briefly?) in December 2022/January 2023.

I don't know why.

[1] https://www.perplexity.ai/search/in-post-soviet-russia-when-...

[2] I am Russian; born in 1977 and left the country in December, 2022.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the opposite. As a fully abled person I find it incredibly annoying to have to flip through US notes instead of just immediately picking out the right one by size and/or color.

Use a wallet with a divider, and sort your bills. Won't have to flip through until you carry several each of five or more denominations. If you regularly do, then use two dividers.

It seems like a roundabout way to reduce the impact of a symptom of a self inflicted problem.

It's clearly not a solution, and it seems like it's a suggestion that can only come from a place of "but we've always done it this way" without experiencing a world without the problem.

Even if 5s and 10s are the only ones mixed together, I still have to look for a number. In every other currency you just… immediately take the right one.

That's not even taking into account that wallets are getting smaller and smaller as people need to bring them less. So adding dividers would be like acquiring George Costanza's wallet.

Hell, if they're different size you can even feel the value of a loose note in your pocket.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These problems can't be legislated away Yes, they can. > because the authority to do so is highly decentralized. So are the problems. And the places where the problems are localized to are the ones with the power to legislate them away. An abrupt elimination of the penny, such as them being immediately banned for use or withdrawn from circulation, would present a problem, sure, but stopping minting them while leavin…

The urgency is quite irrelevant. In many locales you will still have to ask voters for permission and/or have a constitutional referendum in addition to having the local legislature acquiesce. All of those parties can do whatever they want and a large percentage of them don't understand and DGAF. This dynamic plays out over and over for countless issues, this is no different. In the meantime, tax authorities will req…

> The urgency is quite irrelevant.

I have no idea how you get that idea.

> In many locales you will still have to ask voters for permission and/or have a constitutional referendum in addition to having the local legislature acquiesce.

Yeah, and with a sense of urgency, those things can be and routinely are done quickly. Assuming that this argument is in good faith, yYou seem to have a concept of American government derived entirely from a loose knowledge of bits of abstract theory with no connection at all to the reality of practice.

> All of those parties can do whatever they want and a large percentage of them don't understand and DGAF.

Yeah, a broad non-ideological consensus that retail will be legally impossible due to easily communicated, widely=publicized changes in the external conditions without a tweak to sales tax law will easily overcome both the don't know and don't give a fuck of the vast majority of people engaged enough to be involved in the decision-making process at any level, including voting. Things are hard to solve when lots of people have existing strong preferences for particular solutions and those preferences are in fundamental conflict, but this isn't that kind of thing.

> I'd be perfectly happy for pennies to disappear but I am not ignorant of the realpolitik that makes implementation nearly impossible.

Not only do you seem to be ignorant of the political realities, you are also apparently ignorant of the meaning of “realpolitik”, which really doesn’t apply here.

The penny is going away, there'll be some isolated local cases where the timing of effective dates of legislative/administrative fixes to rules written in the assumption that pennies would be widely available vs. the availability of actual pennies will cause some minor inconveniences, and in a decade will look back on apocalyptic claims of near-impossibility the same way we look back at people protecting civilizations-ending consequences from the Y2KK bug. Well, unless we're all dead or living in a nightmarish dystopia for reasons unrelated to the elimination of the penny.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll agree on all but one point. The cotton/linen notes feel so much better in the hand than the candy wrapper plastic of Canadian bills. I know it's a dumb reason, but I just hate the feeling.

Australian here. Barely anyone uses cash anymore. It's weird to see debates about moving towards technology we had 35 years ago which we don't even use anymore.

But, a cashless society is not a panacea. It may be higher tech and more convenient, but it can have significant privacy costs, not to mention the issues with payment card networks engaging in censorship, charging fairly high transaction fees, and pushing the problem of fraud on their networks to every merchant. Considering the payment card network market is seemingly impossible to enter, and governments don't seem to be able or perhaps willing to regulate things, there are ways in which cashless is a downgrade. It would be nice if we could back up and try to resolve some of these issues in a durable by-design way, but sadly it's probably never happening.

Re: The last-ever penny will be minted today in Philadelphia

#860
post #3

I watched a video on the demise of the penny and its predicament was so succinctly explained: everyone gets pennies as change but few carry them around let alone spend them, so we are stuck producing ever more. One news outlet even did an "experiment" where they threw hundreds of pennies on the ground in a city on a busy morning and not one person stopped to pick any up.

Only place I've ever noticed them is the $0.01 pony ride that's been sitting at my grocery store for 30 years. Even they've gotten the hint and simply leave a tray of pennies next to it so people can actually use it.

They’re probably doing that so your kid or some kid can use it and leave the penny tray because they aren’t trying to make money off of it anymore.

It’s just for fun, sounds like a nice gesture.

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