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Android developer verification: Early access starts

android-developers.googleblog.com

241–250 of 694 posts

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#241
post #120

The key question for me is whether this "advanced flow" will allow the practical use of entirely separate app stores (like F-Droid) or if they're going to throw up tons of barriers for every individual app install.

If I were designing the advanced flow, I'd require the decision to be made at phone setup time. Changing your mind later requires a factory reset. Real sideloaders (F-Droid users, etc.) know at setup time that that's how they'll be using their phone, so it works for them. But ordinary users who are targets for sideloading malware will become a lot less attractive if attackers must convince them to wipe their phone to…

But wiping your phone isn't "a little pain"

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#242
post #7

From the very first announcement of this, Google has hinted that they were doing this under pressure from the governments in a few countries. (I don't remember the URL of the first announcement, but https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/08/elevating-... is from 2025-August-25 and mentions “These requirements go into effect in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand”.) The “Why verification is important” s…

I don't buy this argument at all that this specific implementation is under pressure from the government - if the problem is indeed malware getting access to personal data, then the very obvious solution is to ensure that such personal data is not accessible by apps in the first place! Why should apps have access to a user's SMS / RCS? (Yeah, I know it makes onboarding / verification easy and all, if an app can acces…

Yeah. I mean the irony is that the one advantage of having a controlled and monitored app store would be that the entity monitoring it enforces certain standards. Games don't need access to your contacts, ever. If Google Play would just straight up block games that requested unnecessary permissions, it might have value. Instead we have 10,000 match-three games that want to use your camera and read all your data and Google is just fine with that. If the issue was access to personal data, a large proportion of existing apps should just be banned.

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#243

They will just add a flag in the SafetyNet service to let other apps know if non "verified" apps have been installed. You will not be able to use any of your banking apps without first removing all of those... We need alternatives, this will not work and is a risk to freedom/democracy for all of us. Switzerland is implementing a digital ID[1]. It will be made available to the most common devices and is open source. H…

Of course, it wouldn't be HN if the previous claim that "the sky is falling" wasn't followed up with "well, it's not falling, but I saw some heavy rainfall!"

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#244

They will just add a flag in the SafetyNet service to let other apps know if non "verified" apps have been installed. You will not be able to use any of your banking apps without first removing all of those... We need alternatives, this will not work and is a risk to freedom/democracy for all of us. Switzerland is implementing a digital ID[1]. It will be made available to the most common devices and is open source. H…

Why do you think that will happen?

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#245

They will just add a flag in the SafetyNet service to let other apps know if non "verified" apps have been installed. You will not be able to use any of your banking apps without first removing all of those... We need alternatives, this will not work and is a risk to freedom/democracy for all of us. Switzerland is implementing a digital ID[1]. It will be made available to the most common devices and is open source. H…

Seriously though, can anyone tell me why the fuck banking apps try so hard to find any possible excuse to not run on customised devices?

I just can't see any good reason for it but my banking app has invested more work into detecting any possible hint of rooting than into its UX. It's absurd.

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#246
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, let's ask the Debian team about installing packages from third party repos. Debian already is sideloaded on the graciousness of Microsoft's UEFI bootloader keys. Without that key, you could not install anything else than MS Windows. Hence you don't realize how good of an argument it is, because you even bamboozled yourself without realizing it. It gets a worse argument if we want to discuss Qubes and other di…

"Debian already is sideloaded on the graciousness of Microsoft's UEFI bootloader keys. Without that key, you could not install anything else than MS Windows." This is only true if you use Secure boot. It is already not needed and insecure so should be turned off. Then any OS can be installed.

Now tell me how

Turning off UEFI secure boot on a PC to install another "unsecure distribution"

vs.

Unlocking fastboot bootloader on Android to install another "unsecure ROM"

... is not the exact same language, which isn"t really about security but about absolute control of the device.

The parallels are astounding, given that Microsoft's signing process of binaries also meanwhile depends on WHQL and the Microsoft Store. Unsigned binaries can't be installed unless you "disable security features".

My point is that it has absolutely nothing to do with actual security improvements.

Google could've invested that money instead into building an EDR and called it Android Defender or something. Everyone worried about security would've installed that Antivirus. And on top of it, all the fake Anti Viruses in the Google Play Store (that haven't been removed by Google btw) would have no scamming business model anymore either.

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#247

Ancedotal: I used to believe in this "freedom to install". Than my Father got scammed (~$1000) in the name of Electricity recharge. The APK was sent over WhatsApp. Now I am not so sure how to implement this freedom. At the bare minimum there has to be big red warnings. One thing which can immediately improve security is forbidding SMS read access forever. Just like Apple does. No App should be able to read SMS.

> The APK was sent over WhatsApp.

Why did your father enable installing APK packages from third party sources? That's a setting buried deep inside the developer settings, which themselves have to be activated with a very arcane manipulation

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#248
post #17
post #7

From the very first announcement of this, Google has hinted that they were doing this under pressure from the governments in a few countries. (I don't remember the URL of the first announcement, but https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/08/elevating-... is from 2025-August-25 and mentions “These requirements go into effect in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand”.) The “Why verification is important” s…

Google have their own reasons too. They would love to kill off YouTube ReVanced and other haxx0red clients that give features for free which Google would rather sell you on subscription. Just look at everything they've done to break yt-dlp over and over again. In fact their newest countermeasure is a frontpage story right beside this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45898407

Too bad that I'm going iPhone if Google removes sideloading and now I know about revanced so they aren't getting any more than the zero dollars that youtube and youtube music are worth from me

If I'm going to live in a walled garden it's going to the fanciest

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#249

There are many real-world sideloading abuse cases in China. Attackers often trick victims with plausible stories—e.g., claiming a flight is delayed—and ask them to sideload an app (a remote‑meeting or remote‑control tool) to share their screen. Once installed, the attacker can view the victim’s screen and intercept SMS 2FA codes for online banking or other sensitive accounts. Other schemes include impersonating sex w…

> intercept SMS 2FA codes for online banking

Google should just ban all apps that use SMS 2FA codes for login.

Re: Android developer verification: Early access starts

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take the "W". This is pretty good news!

This is not a win. This is having independent distribution shut down and controlled. We no longer own our devices. We're in a worse state than we were in before. Google is becoming a dictator like Apple.

It's not being shut down though. The article says that there will be a way to install unverified apps.
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