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GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

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Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#271

Post by JumpCrisscross »

minimaxir wrote: post #2

All the examples of "warmer" generations show that OpenAI's definition of warmer is synonymous with sycophantic , which is a surprise given all the criticism against that particular aspect of ChatGPT. I suspect this approach is a direct response to the backlash against removing 4o.

> which is a surprise given all the criticism against that particular aspect of ChatGPT

From whom?

History teaches that the vast majority of practically any demographic wants--from the masses to the elites--is personal sycophancy. It's been a well-trodden path to ruin for leaders for millenia. Now we get species-wide selection against this inbuilt impulse.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#272

Post by throwaway-0001 »

pmarreck wrote: post #229
DonaldPShimoda wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like arguing that we shouldn't try to regulate drugs because some people might "want" the heroin that ruins their lives. The existing "personalities" of LLMs are dangerous, full stop. They are trained to generate text with an air of authority and to tend to agree with anything you tell them. It is irresponsible to allow this to continue while not at least deliberately improving education around their use. Thi…

here’s something I noticed: If you yell at them (all caps, cursing them out, etc.), they perform worse , similar to a human. So if you believe that some degree of “personable answering” might contribute to better correctness, since some degree of disagreeable interaction seems to produce less correctness, then you might have to accept some personality.

Interesting codex just did the work once I sweared. Wasted 3-4 prompts being nice. And angry style made him do it.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#273

Post by deaux »

llamasushi wrote: post #91

"Warmer and more conversational" - they're basically admitting GPT-5 was too robotic. The real tell here is splitting into Instant vs Thinking models explicitly. They've given up on the unified model dream and are now routing queries like everyone else (Anthropic's been doing this, Google's Gemini too). Calling it "GPT-5.1 Thinking" instead of o3-mini or whatever is interesting branding. They're trying to make reason…

> Calling it "GPT-5.1 Thinking" instead of o3-mini or whatever is interesting branding. They're trying to make reasoning models feel less like a separate product line and more like a mode. Smart move if they can actually make the router intelligent enough to know when to use it without explicit prompting.

Other providers have been using the same branding for a while. Google had Flash Thinking and Flash, but they've gone the opposite way and merged it into one with 2.5. Kimi K2 Thinking was released this week, coexisting with the regular Kimi K2. Qwen 3 uses it, and a lot of open source UIs have been branding Claude models with thinking enabled as e.g. "Sonnet 3.7 Thinking" for ages.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#274

Post by dragonwriter »

minimaxir wrote: post #2

All the examples of "warmer" generations show that OpenAI's definition of warmer is synonymous with sycophantic , which is a surprise given all the criticism against that particular aspect of ChatGPT. I suspect this approach is a direct response to the backlash against removing 4o.

> All the examples of "warmer" generations show that OpenAI's definition of warmer is synonymous with sycophantic, which is a surprise given all the criticism against that particular aspect of ChatGPT.

Have you considered that “all that criticism” may come from a relatively homogenous, narrow slice of the market that is not representative of the overall market preference?

I suspect a lot of people who are from a very similar background to those making the criticism and likely share it fail to consider that, because the criticism follows their own preferences and viewing its frequency in the media that they consume as representaive of the market is validating.

EDIT: I want to emphasize that I also share the preference that is expressed in the criticisms being discussed, but I also know that my preferred tone for an AI chatbot would probably be viewed as brusque, condescending, and off-putting by most of the market.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#277

Post by 3836293648 »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #55
moi2388 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. If i tell it to choose A or B, I want it to output either “A” or “B”. I don’t want an essay of 10 pages about how this is exactly the right question to ask

10 pages about the question means that the subsequent answer is more likely to be correct. That's why they repeat themselves.

But that goes in the chain of thought, not the response

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#278

Post by lynx97 »

The_Rob wrote: post #136
DonaldPShimoda wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like arguing that we shouldn't try to regulate drugs because some people might "want" the heroin that ruins their lives. The existing "personalities" of LLMs are dangerous, full stop. They are trained to generate text with an air of authority and to tend to agree with anything you tell them. It is irresponsible to allow this to continue while not at least deliberately improving education around their use. Thi…

Comparing LLM responses to heroine is insane.

I am with you. Insane comparisons are the first signs of an activist at work.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#279

Post by qwertytyyuu »

kivle wrote: post #156
tekacs wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what the personality selector is for: you can just pick 'Efficient' (formerly Robot) and it does a good job of answering tersely? https://share.cleanshot.com/9kBDGs7Q

If only that worked for conversation mode as well. At least for me, and especially when it answers me in Norwegian, it will start off with all sorts of platitudes and whole sentences repeating exactly what I just asked. "Oh, so you want to do x, huh? Here is answer for x". It's very annoying. I just want a robot to answer my question, thanks.

repeating what is being asked is fine i think, sometimes is thinks you want something different to what you actually want. what is annoying is "that's and incredibly insightul question that delves into a fundamental..." type responses at the start.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#280

Post by player1234 »

angrydev wrote: post #33
url00 wrote: post #11

I don't want a more conversational GPT. I want the _exact_ opposite. I want a tool with the upper limit of "conversation" being something like LCARS from Star Trek. This is quite disappointing as a current ChatGPT subscriber.

Exactly. Stop fooling people into thinking there’s a human typing on the other side of the screen. LLMs should be incredibly useful productivity tools, not emotional support.

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