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Valve is about to win the console generation

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Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#51

Post by TheRoque »

I hardly understand the headline. Steam machine is just a computer, and since it can be used for other stuff than playing games, then it can't have the cheap pricing of a console. Most consoles are sold at a loss, and the benefits are made when selling console-exclusive games. If you sell something at a loss, but users aren't forced to buy your games, then you're not gonna make any money. Hence, the Steam Machine (AKA GabeCube) is gonna be as expensive as a laptop (or slightly less expensive because of the bigger form factor and lack of portability).

On top of that, the base OS can't run a ton of games that run on console, because it runs in the way of kernel anti cheats (think: battlefield, call of duty, valorant, league of legends... the biggest games basically), while consoles are guaranteed to run most AAA games.

So with all that in mind - while I appreciate what Valve is doing a lot - I don't think it'll win the "console generation". I hardly see how it can even be called a console. It's just a PC, and that's how they call it themselves.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#52

Post by killingtime74 »

skissane wrote: post #42

So, Steam is planning to sell these at a loss, but isn’t planning to lock out third party OS? What’s to stop people buying them to use for completely unrelated use cases? I guess it depends on how big the loss is… if it is small, it might not be really worth it for most people; but any larger, I wonder how sustainable this will be.

Did they say they are selling at a loss?

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#53

Post by rvz »

robomc wrote: post #48
Normal_gaussian wrote: post #46

Valve certainly won't win it, but they're bringing the heat where it wasn't before. SteamOS is the important part here - if it is proven to be a good console experience (which the deck has basically proven already) then licensing of the OS to other manufacturers will put a lot of pressure on integrated h/w s/w manufacturers. Unlike the handheld format, the tvbox console is fairly easy to manufacture and is tolerant o…

Yeah I mean... can I play Fortnite, BF6 or the upcoming GTA on steamOS?

If any game has DRM or anti-cheat technology which BF6 does and even most AAA games, then it cannot play it at all without it.

That is going to be a no go for any SteamOS device when an highly anticipated game gets released on day 1.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#54

Post by protimewaster »

skissane wrote: post #42

So, Steam is planning to sell these at a loss, but isn’t planning to lock out third party OS? What’s to stop people buying them to use for completely unrelated use cases? I guess it depends on how big the loss is… if it is small, it might not be really worth it for most people; but any larger, I wonder how sustainable this will be.

I think the explanation is that people love Valve beyond reason, so a vast majority will just use Steam on it.

Plus, Steam is bordering on a monopoly for PC gaming anyway, so, even if they install another OS, a user is probably going to end up on Steam.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#55

Post by TheRoque »

skissane wrote: post #42

So, Steam is planning to sell these at a loss, but isn’t planning to lock out third party OS? What’s to stop people buying them to use for completely unrelated use cases? I guess it depends on how big the loss is… if it is small, it might not be really worth it for most people; but any larger, I wonder how sustainable this will be.

If that's what happens, then I'm buying one of these right away for sure. I mean, I use steam a lot, but I certainly won't be locked in their "SteamOS". Maybe they are betting that most users will be too lazy to change the defaults and stick to SteamOS (which might very well be the case, and they have a hint of this thanks to the data they have on the Steam Deck)

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#56

Post by killingtime74 »

altairprime wrote: post #13

By making it immutable out of the box, VAC enforcement because vastly easier and third-party multiplayer anti-cheating kernel rootkits are replaced by “attest that you are unmodified”, which Steam Linux and macOS/tvOS/iOS/iPadOS can do — but not Windows 10/11, because sealed boot functionality is behind Microsoft’s enterprise annual subscription fee paywall. This positions Steam Linux as the monopoly provider of cons…

There's hardware level (on a separate device) ability to capture video and send key/mouse now. Impossible to be detected by anticheat. https://wiki.sipeed.com/hardware/en/kvm/NanoKVM_Pro/cua.html

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#57

Post by TheRoque »

killingtime74 wrote: post #52
skissane wrote: post #42

So, Steam is planning to sell these at a loss, but isn’t planning to lock out third party OS? What’s to stop people buying them to use for completely unrelated use cases? I guess it depends on how big the loss is… if it is small, it might not be really worth it for most people; but any larger, I wonder how sustainable this will be.

Did they say they are selling at a loss?

I don't think they have, but it's the business model of most consoles, to be able to be very affordable. So since the headline is implying it'll do better than consoles, it's implying it'll be sold at a loss too. But honestly, I find that article BS.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#58

Post by evo_9 »

One other semi-unrecognized advantage Valve has over consoles is their generous return policy. I’ve bought many games on a whim knowing if I don’t jive with it I can safely get a full refund. Contrast that with my Ps5 where my 2 year old managed to smash buttons while I was tied up on a work call and bought COD for $69 bucks… no way to refund it and I’m not a fan of shooters. Basically Fd on that one.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#59

Post by opan »

skissane wrote: post #42

So, Steam is planning to sell these at a loss, but isn’t planning to lock out third party OS? What’s to stop people buying them to use for completely unrelated use cases? I guess it depends on how big the loss is… if it is small, it might not be really worth it for most people; but any larger, I wonder how sustainable this will be.

You can install Windows (or Bazzite, or whatever else) on a Steam Deck as well.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#60

Post by Normal_gaussian »

robomc wrote: post #48
Normal_gaussian wrote: post #46

Valve certainly won't win it, but they're bringing the heat where it wasn't before. SteamOS is the important part here - if it is proven to be a good console experience (which the deck has basically proven already) then licensing of the OS to other manufacturers will put a lot of pressure on integrated h/w s/w manufacturers. Unlike the handheld format, the tvbox console is fairly easy to manufacture and is tolerant o…

Yeah I mean... can I play Fortnite, BF6 or the upcoming GTA on steamOS?

Probably not. Kernel level anti cheat is the problem. I know BF6 isn't proton safe. Fortnite is the same.

GTA VI will probably run single player on proton fine, GTA V does. Multiplayer will probably not.

The multiplayer with kernel level anti cheat will keep Sony safe through at least another generation; Microsoft is less safe as they're so vulnerable this generation anyway.

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