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Steam Frame

store.steampowered.com

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Re: Steam Frame

#281

Post by giobox »

whycome wrote: post #279
giobox wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the vision pro at 35ppd simply isn't close to the PPD you can get from a good desktop monitor (we can calculate PPD for desktop monitors too, using size and viewing distance). Apple's "retina" HiDPI monitors typically have PPD well beyond 35 at ordinary viewing distances, even a 1080p 24 inch monitor on your desk can exceed this. For me personally, 35ppd feels about the minimum I would accept for emulating a mon…

We get by with lower resolution monitors with lower pixel density all the time.

I'm not sure most of us do anymore - see my 1080p/24 inch example.

No one who has bought almost any MacBook in the last 10 years or so has had PPD this low either.

One can get by with almost anything in a pinch, it doesn't mean its desirable.

Pixel density != PPD either, although increasing it can certainly help PPD. Lower density desktop displays routinely have higher PPD than most VR headsets - viewing distance matters!

Re: Steam Frame

#282

Post by girvo »

robotnikman wrote: post #179
modeless wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They prioritized cost, so they omitted eye tracking hardware. They've also bet more on standalone apps rather than streaming from a PC. These are reasonable tradeoffs. The next Quest may add eye tracking, who knows. Quest Pro had it but was discontinued for being too expensive. We'll have to wait on pricing for Steam Frame, but I don't expect them to match Meta's subsidies, so I'm betting on this being more expensive…

It will be interesting to see how the X86 emulation plays out. In the Verge review of the headset they mentioned stutters when playing on the headset due to having to 'recompile x86 game code on the fly', but they may offer precompiled versions which can be downloaded ahead of time, similar to the precompiled shaders the Steam Deck downloads. If they get everything working well I'm guessing we could see an ARM powere…

> Despite the fact it uses a Qualcomm chip, I'm curious on whether it retains the ability to load alternative OS's like other Steam hardware.

I think it should: we have Linux support/custom operating systems on Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 devices right now today, and the 8 Gen 3 has upstream support already AFAIK

https://rocknix.org/devices/ayn/odin2/

Re: Steam Frame

#283

Post by hadlock »

vanadium1st wrote: post #185

Such a miss not having good full-color AR included. I’m a VR enthusiast with a Meta Quest 3, and it’s a shame that this headset is better than the Quest in every way except the most important one. In my opinion, VR gaming never becomes more than a gimmick. It adds a questionable improvement in graphics and immersion at the incredibly high cost of excluding yourself from the real world. Right now it’s not worth it, an…

Apparently Valve was able to use a true cell phone chip and get more raw performance out of it by using lower res monochrome cameras, whereas qualcomm's AR-capable chips use up a lot of the wafer for processing color AR video and DSP. Given it's built to a budget, and I don't ever use AR, monochrome AR seems like an acceptable tradeoff.

Re: Steam Frame

#284

Post by jackhalford »

Nice to finally have a hackable headset on the market. I’ve been using the dji goggles for fpv flying because of vendor lock in. I wonder I could use these with OpenIPC to fly fpv with a fully open video stack.

Re: Steam Frame

#285

Post by redrblackr »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #243
nabakin wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And foveated streaming has a 1-2ms wireless latency on modern GPUs according to LTT. Insane.

Wow, that's just 1 frame of latency at 60 fps. Edit: Nevermind, I'm dumb. 1/60th of a second is 16 milliseconds, not 1.6 milliseconds.

No, thats between 0.06 and 0.12 frame latency on 60fps. It's not even a frame on 144Hz (1s/144≈7ms)

Re: Steam Frame

#286

Post by Pet_Ant »

Saw that the Steam Frame was wireless and lost interest. Wireless is always an extra complication that never improves things. I've learned lots about framing to hardwire my home network. Sure, make it an option, but I won't pay for latency, battery life, battery weight, cost, or pairing issues of wireless solutions. Give me (replaceable, standard) cables anyday!

That said, there is hope, because if there is a wireless version and it takes off, it can't be hard to make a wired version.

Re: Steam Frame

#287

Post by moffkalast »

nick49488171 wrote: post #175

2160x2160 in each eye for the headset

110 deg fov is a bit on the low side but I guess it'll have to do. I hate how 90% of VR headsets are designed to feel like you have binoculars strapped to your face, absolutely zero peripheral vision.

Re: Steam Frame

#288

Post by p1necone »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #186

Looks exciting! It would be amazing if the headset turns out to be useful for coding without a monitor. Say, in the park.

Being in the park kinda loses its lustre when you've got a headset strapped to your face - I'd prefer a laptop with a screen that's still visible in sunlight.

Re: Steam Frame

#289

Post by big_toast »

whycome wrote: post #279
giobox wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the vision pro at 35ppd simply isn't close to the PPD you can get from a good desktop monitor (we can calculate PPD for desktop monitors too, using size and viewing distance). Apple's "retina" HiDPI monitors typically have PPD well beyond 35 at ordinary viewing distances, even a 1080p 24 inch monitor on your desk can exceed this. For me personally, 35ppd feels about the minimum I would accept for emulating a mon…

We get by with lower resolution monitors with lower pixel density all the time.

I think part of getting by with a lower PPD is the IRL pixels are fixed and have hard boundaries that OS affordances have co-evolved with.

(pixel alignment via lots of rectangular things - windows, buttons; text rendering w/ that in mind; "pixel perfect" historical design philosophy)

The VR PPD is in arbitrary orientations which will lead to more aliasing. MacOS kinda killed their low-dpi experience via bad aliasing as they moved to the hi-dpi regime. Now we have svg-like rendering instead of screen-pixel-aligned baked rasterized UIs.

Re: Steam Frame

#290

Post by ChicagoBoy11 »

robbiet480 wrote: post #239

Trying to decide if Steam Frame is going to be better than Apple Vision Pro + ALVR + lighthouses... AVP has higher resolution and OLED displays with higher PPD but obviously weighs a lot more.

There was a lot of discussion about some work they've done to minimize compression artifacts... that's the biggest drawback for me in terms of ALVR + AVP... I suppose time will tell.
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