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I Want You to Understand Chicago

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Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#521

Post by wsatb »

inemesitaffia wrote: post #509
UncleMeat wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment is sufficiently old and deep that I cannot downvote your post. 1983 claims have been winnowed away into basically nothing by the courts. They aren't a meaningful path to justice.

I just found out the daycare "teacher" allegedly wasn't. Was actually a fleeing suspect. I look forward to it being brought up as fact in the next election. Justice isn't getting what you want. Sometimes it's going back to your country which has stricter immigration requirements than the USA. With guns showing up the day after your Visa expires.

She worked at the school and, according to her attorney, had a legal work permit. [1]

She was running from masked agents who are racially profiling people, detaining them (including US citizens), and then treating them like animals until they sign papers out of the country. They moved her out of state already to make it more difficult for her attorney. This is common practice.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled."

[1] https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/11/07/attorney-day-care-...

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#522

Post by dragonwriter »

scoofy wrote: post #519
dragonwriter wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, we're talking about a democratically elected government enforcing democratically decided laws. No, we are talking about a government repeatedly, flagrantly, breaking the law, and then lying about it and repeatedly getting caught, by courts, by video, etc.

That’s a very important concern that is not directly relevant to whether or not the laws being enforced are democratic or whether the person who is enforcing those laws is a democratically elected representative. I’ve repeatedly noted my concerns and problems with many of the actual enforcement. That said, there is an ocean of difference between having unjust laws and unjust policing.

> That’s a very important concern that is not directly relevant to whether or not the laws being enforced

Well, no, its relevant to whether what is happening is arbitrary and unlawful use of force or enforcement of the law, and if it is the former, then the whole question of "whether or not the laws being enforced are democratic" is misguided, because the shared premise assumed by both options presented is false.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#523

Post by ThrowMeAway1618 »

scoofy wrote: post #505
joshuamorton wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doing a selective quoting thing. Not assisting with enforcement acts you don't feel are worthwhile is not nullification. I'm not engaging in "nullification" when I don't call the police on a jaywalker. Or I mean maybe you think this is, but then police engage in wildcat strikes all the time, or change enforcement priorities, or whatever you want to frame it as. Calling a difference in prioritization "nullifica…

I’m not going to engage with you if you’re going to get in multiple threads and refer to things as “fashy.” It’s difficult enough to engage in a heterodox view in good faith. I don’t need to deal with slapdash bullshit.

>I’m not going to engage with you if you’re going to get in multiple threads and refer to things as “fashy.”

>It’s difficult enough to engage in a heterodox view in good faith. I don’t need to deal with slapdash bullshit.

I see we've reached the point in the discussion where you 'abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating...that the time for argument is over.'

Good fascist! Nice fascist! Late for a Bund meeting, are we?

Source: “Never believe that anti-Semites [or in this case, fascist apologists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre[0]

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-...

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#524

Post by gishh »

ssl-3 wrote: post #484
gishh wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you saying that, in this instance, understanding your vote doesn’t matters is delusional, or not? You never addressed that. You latched onto the nihilistic part, which I suppose isn’t surprising.

Your vote always matters. Your vote gets tallied up along with all of the other votes, each of which individually have exactly equal weight compared to your own vote. By extension: Any suggestion to the contrary is delusional.

I reject your premise.

Your vote doesn't always matter.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#525

Post by scoofy »

ThrowMeAway1618 wrote: post #523
scoofy wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not going to engage with you if you’re going to get in multiple threads and refer to things as “fashy.” It’s difficult enough to engage in a heterodox view in good faith. I don’t need to deal with slapdash bullshit.

>I’m not going to engage with you if you’re going to get in multiple threads and refer to things as “fashy.” >It’s difficult enough to engage in a heterodox view in good faith. I don’t need to deal with slapdash bullshit. I see we've reached the point in the discussion where you 'abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating...that the time for argument is over.' Good fascist! Nice fascist! Late for a Bund meeting, are we…

> I see we've reached the point in the discussion where you 'abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating...that the time for argument is over.'

I literally continued the discussion with this user in the other thread he was posting in… geez try and keep up my guy.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#526

Post by toomuchtodo »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #38
saulpw wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The replacement voters are currently teenagers. They haven't "learned their lesson", they aren't old enough to have experienced politics at all. They were 6 years old when Trump was elected the first time. This is their reality and we can't expect that the electorate gets more sensible because old people rotate out.

https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker https://www.newsweek.com/trump-support-among-men-eroding-108... https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-absolutely-craters... Young women are also most liberal than ever, and who carried recent election wins. I expect this trend to continue. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/gallup-analysis-finds-yo... https://news.gallup.com/poll/609914/women-become-li…

Additional citation:

The 2024 Trump "realignment" is already over - https://www.gelliottmorris.com/p/trumps-winning-2024-coaliti... - November 7th, 2025

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#527

Post by scoofy »

dragonwriter wrote: post #522
scoofy wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very important concern that is not directly relevant to whether or not the laws being enforced are democratic or whether the person who is enforcing those laws is a democratically elected representative. I’ve repeatedly noted my concerns and problems with many of the actual enforcement. That said, there is an ocean of difference between having unjust laws and unjust policing.

> That’s a very important concern that is not directly relevant to whether or not the laws being enforced Well, no, its relevant to whether what is happening is arbitrary and unlawful use of force or enforcement of the law, and if it is the former, then the whole question of "whether or not the laws being enforced are democratic" is misguided, because the shared premise assumed by both options presented is false.

Your concern is with the executive powers, that's an issue for the judicial branch. Our discussion is about the legislative branch and the electoral process. That's how we create law. This discussion is about the consequences of nullification of law that we don't like that does not violate some inherent human right (and no, I think it's fairly absurd to suggest that overstaying a visa is some human right, and I also think it's even difficult to suggest that seeking asylum in one nation specifically, and not a neutral third-party nation is some human right).

You're talking about the specific day-to-day of enforcement, which I've repeatedly said I don't like, and is probably a problem in many cases. That is important, it's also worth discussing, it's just very much NOT relevant to a discussion of the risks and consequences of states going down a path of nullification of a law that is popular on the federal level.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#528

Post by [deleted] »

HeinzStuckeIt wrote: post #180
sgentle wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not think there might be a relationship between the lack of due process and the choice of terms? Like, maybe the defining difference between arrest and abduction is whether the action is the output of an accountable system of justice, rather than whether the people doing it are the right kind of people and the people having it done to them are the wrong kind of people.

For some years now there has been a segment of the American left, particularly visible on social media, who believes that strictly enforcing immigration laws at all is bad. This predates the current guy, as well as his administration as the former guy. So, when I read an article by someone like the writer here whose online activity has other shibboleths of a left more extreme than found in mainstream parties in many…

[deleted]

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#529

Post by ssl-3 »

gishh wrote: post #524
ssl-3 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your vote always matters. Your vote gets tallied up along with all of the other votes, each of which individually have exactly equal weight compared to your own vote. By extension: Any suggestion to the contrary is delusional.

I reject your premise. Your vote doesn't always matter.

The vote that is never cast is absolutely worthless. You're correct.

(I vote every single time unless my ballot would simply be empty. I'd like to say "I'll see you at the polls!" but that is seemingly a lost cause -- it's apparent that only one of us has any chance at all of imparting any change at this level, and that this person is not you.

But you do you. The folks who aren't nihilists will do what we can to steer the ship without your help.)

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#530

Post by ragazzina »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #453
ragazzina wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans protest by writing witty signs and taking pictures for the ‘gram. No wonder they never work.

You have no idea what we are doing or what it is like to do it.

I do have no idea what you are doing.
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