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Steam Frame

store.steampowered.com

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Re: Steam Frame

#111

Post by esseph »

monocasa wrote: post #110
cube2222 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're doing it over 6GHz, if I understand correctly, which with a dedicated router gets you to a reasonable latency with reasonable quality even without foveated rendering (with e.g. a Quest 3). With foveated rendering I expect this to be a breeze.

Even 5.8Ghz is getting congested. There's a dedicated router in this case (a USB fob), but you still have to share spectrum with the other devices. And at the 160Mhz symbol rate mode on WiFi6, you only have one channel in the 5.8GHz spectrum that needs to be shared.

Not so much of an issue when neighbors with paper thin walls see that 6ghz as a -87 signal

That said, in the US it is 1200MHz aka 5.925 GHz to 7.125 GHz.

Re: Steam Frame

#112

Post by VikingCoder »

They mention tracking the new Steam Controller, too.

Which makes me wonder if they'll make a new Steam Deck that has the IR emitters in it, so the Frame could track the Deck?

I wonder if the two working together could work well?

Re: Steam Frame

#113

Post by Zarathruster »

cortesoft wrote: post #107

This looks fantastic. The only negative I see so far it is only monochrome passthrough. The full color passthrough on the Quest 3 is pretty killer, it sucks to go backwards on that.

I guess we're in a minority but I'm in full agreement. Color passthrough really felt like a game-changer, and I've long wished for a more open, non-Meta alternative. Guess we'll be waiting a bit longer

Re: Steam Frame

#114

Post by cedws »

modeless wrote: post #60

Foveated streaming! That's a great idea. Foveated rendering is complicated to implement with current rendering APIs in a way that actually improves performance, but foveated streaming seems like a much easier win that applies to all content automatically. And the dedicated 6 GHz dongle should do a much better job at streaming than typical wifi routers. > Just like any SteamOS device, install your own apps, open a bro…

Why hasn't Meta tried this given the huge amount of R&D they've put into VR and they had literally John Carmack on the team in the past?

Re: Steam Frame

#115

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

modeless wrote: post #60

Foveated streaming! That's a great idea. Foveated rendering is complicated to implement with current rendering APIs in a way that actually improves performance, but foveated streaming seems like a much easier win that applies to all content automatically. And the dedicated 6 GHz dongle should do a much better job at streaming than typical wifi routers. > Just like any SteamOS device, install your own apps, open a bro…

> Roughly equivalent resolution to Quest 3 and less than Vision Pro. This won't be suitable as a monitor replacement for general desktop use.

The real limiting factor is more likely to be having a large headset on your face for an extended period of time, combined with a battery that isn't meant for all-day use. The resolution is fine. We went decades with low resolution monitors. Just zoom in or bring it closer.

Re: Steam Frame

#116

Post by JulesRosser »

AaronAPU wrote: post #51

The only really incredible VR experience I have had so far was Half-life Alyx. Is there anything that tier or even better these days?

Driving Sims, PavlovVR was a must play for a counterstrike shooter with great modding scene. Of course Skyrim VR, it's unplayable without mods but with voice recognition and QOL mods it's incredible,

Re: Steam Frame

#117

Post by slg »

It's interesting to see them putting more attention on playing traditional games with this. I have long thought that the most broadly viable use for VR headsets in gaming is giving users a big screen to play their regular games. There just doesn't actually appear to be much market for true VR games considering all the complicating factors like motion sickness or requiring a big play area. It reminds me of the Nintendo Wii. Taking turns playing Beat Saber with a few of your friends is fun just like Wii Sports was, but in the end people are going to spend a lot more time sitting on their couch to play something more traditional like Mario Kart.

Re: Steam Frame

#118

Post by Tade0 »

slg wrote: post #108
t-writescode wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AA means they don’t have to handle battery replacements; and it’s not too-too hard to get rechargeable batteries. I would prefer batteries in machine, too; but this does have some sustainability and repairability (by not needing it) advantages.

You're right that it's "not too-too hard" to get them, but it's also "not too-too easy" to actually use them in comparison just plugging a USB-C cable into the device. The process you will have to go through to recharge this will become incredibly annoying for something that will eat through batteries as quickly as a VR headset. Think of all the criticisms Apple has received over the years due to the Magic Mouses cha…

There are 1.5V AA li-ion batteries on the market. I bought a few to power children's toys and they have comparable capacity to alkaline batteries. At high currents they actually perform better.

Cost is about 10x that of their non-rechargeable brethren, but obviously there's return on that investment.

Re: Steam Frame

#119

Post by modeless »

cedws wrote: post #114
modeless wrote: post #60

Foveated streaming! That's a great idea. Foveated rendering is complicated to implement with current rendering APIs in a way that actually improves performance, but foveated streaming seems like a much easier win that applies to all content automatically. And the dedicated 6 GHz dongle should do a much better job at streaming than typical wifi routers. > Just like any SteamOS device, install your own apps, open a bro…

Why hasn't Meta tried this given the huge amount of R&D they've put into VR and they had literally John Carmack on the team in the past?

They prioritized cost, so they omitted eye tracking hardware. They've also bet more on standalone apps rather than streaming from a PC. These are reasonable tradeoffs. The next Quest may add eye tracking, who knows. Quest Pro had it but was discontinued for being too expensive.

We'll have to wait on pricing for Steam Frame, but I don't expect them to match Meta's subsidies, so I'm betting on this being more expensive than Quest. I also think that streaming from a gaming PC will remain more of a niche thing despite Valve's focus on it here, and people will find a lot of use for the x86/Windows emulation feature to play games from their Steam library directly on the headset.

Re: Steam Frame

#120

Post by monocasa »

esseph wrote: post #111
monocasa wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even 5.8Ghz is getting congested. There's a dedicated router in this case (a USB fob), but you still have to share spectrum with the other devices. And at the 160Mhz symbol rate mode on WiFi6, you only have one channel in the 5.8GHz spectrum that needs to be shared.

Not so much of an issue when neighbors with paper thin walls see that 6ghz as a -87 signal That said, in the US it is 1200MHz aka 5.925 GHz to 7.125 GHz.

More of an issue when your phone's wifi or your partner watching a show while you game is eating into that one channel in bursts, particularly since the dedicated fob means that it's essentially another network conflicting with the regular WiFI rather than deeply collaborating for better real time guarantees (not that arbitrary wifi routers would even support real time scheduling).

MIMO helps here to separate the spectrum use by targeted physical location, but it's not perfect by any means.

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