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GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

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Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#41
post #11

I don't want a more conversational GPT. I want the _exact_ opposite. I want a tool with the upper limit of "conversation" being something like LCARS from Star Trek. This is quite disappointing as a current ChatGPT subscriber.

I think they get way more "engagement" from people who use it as their friend, and the end goal of subverting social media and creating the most powerful (read: profitable) influence engine on earth makes a lot of sense if you are a soulless ghoul.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#42
post #22

All the examples of "warmer" generations show that OpenAI's definition of warmer is synonymous with sycophantic , which is a surprise given all the criticism against that particular aspect of ChatGPT. I suspect this approach is a direct response to the backlash against removing 4o.

That's an excellent observation, you've hit at the core contradiction between OpenAI's messaging about ChatGPT tuning and the changes they actually put into practice. While users online have consistently complained about ChatGPT's sycophantic responses and OpenAI even promised to address them their subsequent models have noticeably increased their sycophantic behavior. This is likely because agreeing with the user ke…

Those billions of dollars gotta pay for themselves.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#43
post #35
post #23

Since Claude and OpenAI made it clear they will be retaining all of my prompts, I have mostly stopped using them. I should probably cancel my MAX subscriptions. Instead I'm running big open source models and they are good enough for ~90% of tasks. The main exceptions are Deep Research (though I swear it was better when I could choose o3) and tougher coding tasks (sonnet 4.5)

Source? You can opt out of training, and delete history, do they keep the prompts somehow?!

It's not simply "training". What's the point of training on prompts? You can't learn the answer to a question by training on the question.

For Anthropic at least it's also opt-in not opt-out afaik.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#44
FYI ChatGPT has a “custom instructions” setting in the personalization setting where you can ask it to lay off the idiotic insincere flattery. I recently added this:

> Do not compliment me for asking a smart or insightful question. Directly give the answer.

And I’ve not been annoyed since. I bet that whatever crap they layer on in 5.1 is undone as easily.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#45

Gemini 2.5 Pro is still my go to LLM of choice. Haven't used any OpenAI product since it released, and I don't see any reason why I should now.

I was you except when I seriously tried gpt-5-high it turned out it is really, really damn good, if slow, sometimes unbearably so. It's a different model of work; gemini 2.5 needs more interactivity, whereas you can leave gpt-5 alone for a long time without even queueing a 'continue'.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#46

All the examples of "warmer" generations show that OpenAI's definition of warmer is synonymous with sycophantic , which is a surprise given all the criticism against that particular aspect of ChatGPT. I suspect this approach is a direct response to the backlash against removing 4o.

That's a lesson on revealed preferences, especially when talking to a broad disparate group of users.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Id have more appreciation and trust in an llm that disagreed with me more and challenged my opinions or prior beliefs. The sycophancy drives me towards not trusting anything it says.

Just set a global prompt to tell it what kind of tone to take. I did that and it points out flaws in my arguments or data all the time. Plus it no longer uses any cutesy language. I don't feel like I'm talking to an AI "personality", I feel like I'm talking to a computer which has been instructed to be as objective and neutral as possible. It's super-easy to change.

What's your global prompt please? A more firm chatbot would be nice actually

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#49
post #25
post #11

I don't want a more conversational GPT. I want the _exact_ opposite. I want a tool with the upper limit of "conversation" being something like LCARS from Star Trek. This is quite disappointing as a current ChatGPT subscriber.

Same. If i tell it to choose A or B, I want it to output either “A” or “B”. I don’t want an essay of 10 pages about how this is exactly the right question to ask

LLMs have essentially no capability for internal thought. They can't produce the right answer without doing that.

Of course, you can use thinking mode and then it'll just hide that part from you.

Re: GPT-5.1: A smarter, more conversational ChatGPT

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Id have more appreciation and trust in an llm that disagreed with me more and challenged my opinions or prior beliefs. The sycophancy drives me towards not trusting anything it says.

Just set a global prompt to tell it what kind of tone to take. I did that and it points out flaws in my arguments or data all the time. Plus it no longer uses any cutesy language. I don't feel like I'm talking to an AI "personality", I feel like I'm talking to a computer which has been instructed to be as objective and neutral as possible. It's super-easy to change.

I’ve done this when I remember too, but the fact I have to also feels problematic like I’m steering it towards an outcome if I do or dont.
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