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Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

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41–50 of 456 posts

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#41

This is a huge sign of confidence that they think they can do this safely and at scale... Freeways might appear "easy" on the surface, but there are all sorts of long tail edge-cases that make them insanely tricky to do confidently without a driver. This will unlock a lot for them with all of the smaller US cities (where highways are essential) they've announced plans for over the next year or so.

Perhaps more a reaction to pressure from Tesla; the latest FSD builds show full autonomy is coming very soon. Without highway driving, Waymo would quickly be seen as a distant second in the race when the safety driver is removed from Robotaxis in Austin (supposedly before EOY 2025).

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#42

I was in SF a few weekend ago and rode both Waymo and normal Lyft style taxi cars. the Waymo was a better experience in every single way. One of the Lyfts i was in drove on the shoulder for a while like it was a lane. The Waymos were just smooth consistent driving. No aggressive driving to get you dumped off so they can get to the next fair.

I had a similar experience. A few months ago, I was in the city for a weekend and took Waymo for most of my rides. The one time I chose to use Lyft/Uber, the driver floored it before we even had a chance to shut the door or get buckled! The rest of the time we took Waymo.

I rarely use ride-sharing but other experiences include having been in a FSD Tesla Uber where the driver wasn't paying attention to the road the entire time (hands off the wheel, looking behind him, etc.).

I don't know if I trust Waymo cars with my life, but at least there are SOME standards, compared to the natural variance of humans.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#43

This is a huge sign of confidence that they think they can do this safely and at scale... Freeways might appear "easy" on the surface, but there are all sorts of long tail edge-cases that make them insanely tricky to do confidently without a driver. This will unlock a lot for them with all of the smaller US cities (where highways are essential) they've announced plans for over the next year or so.

Slow roads are easier because you can rely on a simple emergency breaking system for safety. You have a radar that looks directly in front of the car and slams on the breaks if you’re about to crash. This prevents almost all accidents below 35mph.

The emergency breaking system gives you a lot of room for error in the rest of the system.

Once you’re going faster than 35mph this approach no longer works. You have lots of objects on the pavement that are false positives for the emergency breaking system so you have to turn it off.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#44
post #20
post #10

How will Waymos handle speed limits on highways? In the city, they seem to stick to the rules. A large percentage of drivers in the bay area, including non-emergency police, drive well above the legal limit regularly. Unless Waymo sticks to the slow lane, it's going to be a weird issue.

If you watch the videos that insiders have been posting, it never exceeds the speed limits. If you watch the videos more carefully, you will notice the people who speed by at 85 MPH later enter the screen again, because that is the nature of freeway traffic. I predict that a few hundred of these on the road will measurably improve safety and decrease severe congestion by being that one sane driver that defuses stop-a…

> In fact I think CHP should just contract with them to pace 101 in waves.

"Waves" are really what we would want them to prevent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_wave

The autonomous cars can prevent these waves from forming, which would get people to their destinations faster than speeding.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#45
An interesting prospect is that a bunch of autonomous cars on the freeways might have a meaningful impact in preventing traffic jams (specifically those "phantom jams") [0] simply by driving in a calm and pondered way always at a constant distance.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m74zazYPwkY&t=1860s

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#47
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American drivers specifically can be improved. Every other country stands as an existence proof of that.

You clearly haven't been to very many countries if you think American drivers are the worst out there.

I don't need to travel to learn this: https://www.onlinesafetytrainer.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/...

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#48
post #15
post #10

How will Waymos handle speed limits on highways? In the city, they seem to stick to the rules. A large percentage of drivers in the bay area, including non-emergency police, drive well above the legal limit regularly. Unless Waymo sticks to the slow lane, it's going to be a weird issue.

[flagged]

No, it is not only a problem for "'well above the legal limit' speeding drivers"; it is a problem for you, and the solution requires more thought than the "just follow the rules" that you put into your post.

There are many instances where the entire mass of traffic across three or four lanes is 10-20mph above the stated limit, e.g., going 75-85mph in a 66mph posted area.

It may not be legal, but it is reality. And when it is everyone, it is not only "aggressive" drivers. It is everyone. And one driver thinking they will change the situation only makes it worse.

If you are going 20-30mph below the speed of traffic you are at least as much a hazard to yourself and everyone around you as going 20-30mph above the speed of traffic, and the stated speed limit has nothing to do with it.

Going substantially slower than traffic, even in the slow lane with flashers on, nearly all of the threats and actions are overtaking you and coming from behind you, meaning to see and react to most of the developing situations, you must be driving through your rear-view mirrors.

And the situation you create can be very deadly, as one car can change lanes to avoid you, revealing you late to the next car, which barely changes lanes, and further reduces time for the next, who hits you and starts the pile-up.

It is not only their problem, it is yours too. Sure, you may be legally in the right, but you have still caused yourself to get hit.

What my grandfather explained to me is still correct:

"You never want to be dead right."

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#49
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly haven't been to very many countries if you think American drivers are the worst out there.

I don't need to travel to learn this: https://www.onlinesafetytrainer.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/...

Ah of course, all other thirty seven countries of the world.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo continues to improve every year, but dumb drivers never will.

It is probably possible to get drivers to improve if the incentives were there or if they had no choice due to external factors. I bet it would be cheaper than money spent on self driving tech too. Or public transit on a track.

Drivers can improve, but they won't. They will talk about the abstract just fine, but always in context of how "the other guy" is so bad, they resist any suggestion that they might not be good either. As soon as your point out something that nearly everyone is doing wrong (as backed up by statistics and traffic safety engineers who study this) and suddenly they will shut you down. As the other reply said: drivers vote and so any change that would affect all of them is impossible.

I'd love to see better public transit, but transit is so bad for most of us that it would take a massive investment before there is any return, and half measures won't work. You have to go all in on transit before you can see any significant change - if you invest in the wrong network you won't know until a massive amount as been invested and there is no return (leaving open the question of if a different investment would have worked).

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