Live data from Hacker News

Attack of the Fifty-Foot NIMBYs

i.stanford.edu

11–20 of 95 posts

Re: Attack of the Fifty-Foot NIMBYs

#11
post #6

The analysis is reasonable overall, but trying to distinguish between "good" and "bad" NIMBYs is a pretty serious flaw. You have to put halfway houses and power plants somewhere . Those NIMBYs are still stealing from other people, they're just stealing from the residents of some other place whose residents have less free time or political capital to prevent something that lowers property values from being constructed…

The OP and your post have the word 'stealing' in. It's an incorrect use of the word. It's not hard to find respectactable nimby cases. What if someone wanted to pub a pub at the end of your street? You are not a drinker, and you object to the prospect of people stumbling down your street shouting at strange hours, leaving mess on your property and more chance of intoxicated drivers.

>The OP and your post have the word 'stealing' in. It's an incorrect use of the word.

I'm not interested in the "is copyright infringement theft" debate. Words mean what people understand them to mean. "Stealing" encodes a moral condemnation of the activity, which can be objectionable when it is used to frame the debate. But it's also a lot easier to say than "acquiring a relative net benefit" or the like. Moreover, I'm just using the author's terms. All I mean to say is that constructing traffic obstructions and obstructing the construction of power plants are either both stealing or neither are, and in any event they're both socially expensive.

>It's not hard to find respectactable nimby cases. What if someone wanted to pub a pub at the end of your street? You are not a drinker, and you object to the prospect of people stumbling down your street shouting at strange hours, leaving mess on your property and more chance of intoxicated drivers.

It's still the same thing. You're either arguing that we shouldn't have pubs at all or you're arguing that we shouldn't have them in your neighborhood. If you're arguing the second, you're still a "bad NIMBY" because the pub then has to go in someone else's neighborhood and you're just foisting the cost of the drunkards onto those people.

And if you're arguing the first, we tried that already (see: prohibition) and it was a disaster. In the general case, there will be some things that are always net undesirable, but the people qualified to make that determination are scientists and statisticians, not the self-interested local residents in whatever place they propose to construct a potentially beneficial thing with known local negative externalities.

Re: Attack of the Fifty-Foot NIMBYs

#13
post #10
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, overall health situation tends to deteriorate as one ages, so seniors as a group would need more healthcare dollars per capita compared to the younger population groups. No wonder healthcare becomes one of the most important issues for seniors.

No- healthcare is an investment with a negative interest rate, ie you can only try to maintain your capital if you keep investing more and more - with a diminishing return since it ends in death anyway (with the current technology) In this specific case, a better investment strategy is to put the money where you will get the most of it, i.e. on the health of people still young, and reduce the investment as the people…

I don't know about the economic soundness of the argument, but it is so cold hearted that I would immediately emigrate from any country where this was the driving force behind government policy.

Re: Attack of the Fifty-Foot NIMBYs

#14
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's luck - just when I was browsing around I found the perfect analysis on overcoming bias : senior voters and their healtcare - paid for by the majority, but since seniors vote more, they favour the candidate serving their interest - at the expanse of the majority http://www.overcomingbias.com/2012/09/us-politics-of-medicin... Very interesting indeed- it seems to be the simplest pitfall of democracy : when th…

> senior voters and their healtcare - paid for by the majority, but since seniors vote more, they favour the candidate serving their interest - at the expanse of the majority It's difficult to see how this is at the expense of the majority since it's not exclusive: the majority will eventually become members of the beneficial group. I.e., why not have a policy that benefits the elderly since most of us will one day b…

There is another possibility besides growing old.

Re: Attack of the Fifty-Foot NIMBYs

#15
post #13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No- healthcare is an investment with a negative interest rate, ie you can only try to maintain your capital if you keep investing more and more - with a diminishing return since it ends in death anyway (with the current technology) In this specific case, a better investment strategy is to put the money where you will get the most of it, i.e. on the health of people still young, and reduce the investment as the people…

I don't know about the economic soundness of the argument, but it is so cold hearted that I would immediately emigrate from any country where this was the driving force behind government policy.

And I am so coldhearted that I would emigrate from any country with this policy, when I get old.

Re: Attack of the Fifty-Foot NIMBYs

#16
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP and your post have the word 'stealing' in. It's an incorrect use of the word. It's not hard to find respectactable nimby cases. What if someone wanted to pub a pub at the end of your street? You are not a drinker, and you object to the prospect of people stumbling down your street shouting at strange hours, leaving mess on your property and more chance of intoxicated drivers.

Neighborhood pubs/bars of the sort that are attended primarily by people in the neighborhood are actually beneficial to neighborhood security and quality of life. Anything that gets the people who actually live there out on the street, particularly in the nighttime hours, increases security. Our modern, sterile "city planning" where everything is separated and zoned off into their own areas is a huge factor in the de…

Jacobs analysis doesn't extend to public drunkenness.

Re: Attack of the Fifty-Foot NIMBYs

#17
I read the whole article, but stopped taking it seriously at: "a vicious collection of roadblocks"

I think it's fine for people to desire quieter neighborhoods in this era of high population density. I don't think that the people in all of those examples were pursuing change for the financial gain.

Re: Attack of the Fifty-Foot NIMBYs

#18
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's luck - just when I was browsing around I found the perfect analysis on overcoming bias : senior voters and their healtcare - paid for by the majority, but since seniors vote more, they favour the candidate serving their interest - at the expanse of the majority http://www.overcomingbias.com/2012/09/us-politics-of-medicin... Very interesting indeed- it seems to be the simplest pitfall of democracy : when th…

> senior voters and their healtcare - paid for by the majority, but since seniors vote more, they favour the candidate serving their interest - at the expanse of the majority It's difficult to see how this is at the expense of the majority since it's not exclusive: the majority will eventually become members of the beneficial group. I.e., why not have a policy that benefits the elderly since most of us will one day b…

One way is that reallocating money is wasteful. It requires administration and encourages wasting more money on lobbying for your entitlement.

Even though it may theoretically make sense if the reallocation is frictionless, that's not how it turns out.

Re: Attack of the Fifty-Foot NIMBYs

#19
post #4
post #3

Excellent analysis of the situation - very interesting and could be with other consequences and applications, whenever the minority can be the one to both benefit on, propose, and vote on a change that the majority will have to bear and pay - all the while using a false pretense like safety. The proposed solution to study the consequences could also be returned and simplified - to mesure the impact of the proposed ch…

Wow that's luck - just when I was browsing around I found the perfect analysis on overcoming bias : senior voters and their healtcare - paid for by the majority, but since seniors vote more, they favour the candidate serving their interest - at the expanse of the majority http://www.overcomingbias.com/2012/09/us-politics-of-medicin... Very interesting indeed- it seems to be the simplest pitfall of democracy : when th…

Having a society where the elderly are not just left to wither and die benefits everyone, even those who are not (yet) elderly.

Re: Attack of the Fifty-Foot NIMBYs

#20
post #12

> Hmmm... anybody have a guess as to what they have in mind? I don't, actually. Anyone wanna clue me in?

OK. What they have in mind is that what they think is an accurate representation of what is best for everyone and represents the majority's preference. So no need for further research or polls.
Post reply on HN