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A modern 35mm film scanner for home

soke.engineering

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Re: A modern 35mm film scanner for home

#151
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re for sure exceeding the linear resolving power of 35mm film at 40MP or 64MP. However , a Bayer-filtered sensor has lower color resolution, since each pixel only sees one color. So the pixel shift really helps quite a bit here since the sensor (and Bayer array) are shifting relative to the film multiple times per exposure. High-quality film scanners maintain color resolution by using linear sensors without Bayer…

Some modern 35mm emulsions can record ~500 megapixels worth of detail, but good luck getting all that detail in a digital scan. https://www.adox.de/Photo/films/cms20ii-en/

500 megapixels can have less detail than an old 1 mpix digital from 2001.

[Image resolution is a very complicated topic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution) and megapixel count, or even lines/mm does not tell the full story.

Re: A modern 35mm film scanner for home

#153
I doubt whether this product will usher in a new era of film scanning for many photographers. For starters, as it's only aimed at 35mm negatives it's unsuitable for my needs.

As with many photographers, my collection consists of B&W and colour prints of various sizes and formats, 35mm B&W and colour negatives in both rolls and cut strips, 35mm slide/reversal material both in rolls and as mounted slides. Film stock covers many brands including Agfa, Ansco, Fuji, Kodak—including its Eastman movie emulsions—and others. Kodak holds special place, with Kodacolor, Ektachrome (including infrared versions) and Kodachrome. At a guess, I've have about 30,000 Kodachrome slides alone. And that's not all, I've also larger format photos, prints, B&W and colour negatives and reversal stock.

Most of this material has still not been scanned because of the challenges involved, for instance those in the know will be aware of the difficulty of scanning Kodachrome slides because of residual silver that's still in the processed emulsion. Then there are scanning difficulties, mounting various formats (slides, rolls of negatives, etc.) and technical difficulties such as focus adjustment, avoiding Newton's rings, etc. Simply, I've not been able to get the tech necessary to do what I consider an adequate job.

Restricting my comments to just 35mm I can confidently say there is NO 35mm film scanner on the market today that can do full justice to a large range of film types—except perhaps exotic and expensive drum scanners which are unavailable to the vast majority of photographers including many professionals. (Drum scanners are only found in high-end professional and technical environments, they cost upwards of tens of thousands of dollars and are a damn pain to use.)

Fact is there is NO film scanner on the market today that can faithfully reproduce in digital form the full dynamic range and resolution† of old fashioned chemical film emulsions. I say 'old fashioned' because modern digital photography, HDR etc., is capable of much wider dynamic range, resolution and colour gamut than film emulsions, so it's not a technology limitation (converting the limited dynamics of old film ought to be easy but no manufacturer makes equipment that does). It's really shameful that no manufacturer has stepped in to fill this technical gap when clearly the technology is available to do so.

Below, I've kept to the basics, an in-depth comment would be much more detailed:

• Argument goes that no one would pay for a film scanner with those specifications—as its manufacture would require precision/exotic tech, and anyway it's doubtful anyone would notice the difference with currently available scanners. I question both those assumptions as I'll explain.

• Leaving drum scanners and a few very expensive ones aside, in the past the best 35mm scanners on the market were the Nikon COOLSCAN range but Nikon discontinued them some years back and nothing has equalled or replaced them since. They were not perfect but they had the best optics and overall provided the best resolution and dynamic range available of any scanner. The COOLSCAN's most significant limitation was its incredibly slow scanning speed (nothing much has changed here with the possible exception of this soke engineering device, film scanners have always had snail-like speeds for seemingly inexplicable reasons).

• Nowadays, for most photographers the best compromise between quality and usability are Plustek scanners, whilst they have neither as good a resolution nor the dynamic range of the Nikon COOLSCANs they are about the best available. I'd add neither are Plustek's mechanics for scanning films as good as the COOLSCANs (that said, in this regard the Nikons weren't much better than just adequate).

• So is there really a noticeable difference between a Plustek and a COOLSCAN? Yes there is, COOLSCANs have noticeably greater dynamic range in dark shadowy areas, and despite the Plustek having comparable resolution specifications with the Nikons the COOLSCANs produced visually sharper scans.

• Why are all film scanners so pathetically slow? A good question I cannot fully answer. Perhaps 20 or so years ago there may have been some excuse but even back then I'd argue they should have been much faster. For argument's sake even if the electronics had slewing limitations and had difficulty in processing images—which wasn't the case—then scanners could have been made much faster by simply increasing the number of rows of sensors—for example, increasing the rows from one to 10 and stepping 10 pixels at a time would increase scanning speed by 10. This is so obvious that it's mindboggling that it hasn't been incorporated into scanners previously. (Note, the other obvious option of photographing an image as does a camera has serious quality limitations.)

There's much more to say about speeding up scanners which I cannot cover here except to say have you noticed that scanners still use USB-2 and not USB3-3? Why?

• There are other significant issues that haven't been addressed adequately in many scanners such as colour calibration. For instance, every type of colour negative has a unique set of parameters often referred to as 'film terms'. In short, these parameters define how the destructive colour mask should be decoded (that's the orangy mask that's incorporated in all colour negatives). Many scanners only approximate or guess these parameters and expensive third party proprietary software such as SilverFast is needed to correct these limitations.

If I didn't know better I'd reckon the lack of a competitive range of high performance film scanners on the market was some form of conspiracy—electronics designers having an intrinsic distain for old fashioned analog film technology or such but clearly there's more to it than that. Whilst I can surmise reasons I'd only be guessing but for sure it has little to do with technical limitations.

Why the scanner crisis hasn't been a much hotter topic amongst serious photographers and professional reviewers has perplexed me. Perhaps if nothing else this scanner from soke engineering might fan the debate, it could perhaps force scanner manufacturers such as Plustek to upgrade their long-stagnant designs.

_

† Kodachrome has a resolution of 100 lines per mm which roughly equates to an image with 3600x2400 pixels (a frame being 36x24mm). Some films have even higher resolutions. Nyquist math says that the sampling rate should be doulde which means a scanner should be able to resolve to 7200 lines per frame but in practice no commonly available scanner comes anywhere near this figure. Diehards note, I'm aware this isn't a precise calculation but it'll do for argument's purpose.

Re: A modern 35mm film scanner for home

#154
post #134

I got my relatively portable scanner for around ~100 euros, plus the software for 100 as well if I’m not mistaken. And it works fine. It’s weird for me that with the advancing technology people keep coming up with higher price with an excuse of approach, design, whatever. This seems like an overpriced piece of tech for niche connoisseurs. And I don’t like it.

What scanner are you using, out of curiosity? Funny thing is, in general, low and midrange desktop scanners that public can generally buy, haven't changed much in 10-20 years since they started using led lights and IR dust removal (Canon Fare, Digital ICE or similar stuff). Some are even the same hardware just slightly rebadged or with a different USB connector. But they're the same price or more expensive. And, at a…

it's plustek OpticFilm 7200, I bought it second-hand.

Re: A modern 35mm film scanner for home

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought some time on a hasselblad medium format scanner (took fucking ages) The results are good, as you'd expect. However can I tell the difference between that and me putting the negatives on a decent softbox and using a fancy camera to take a picture? yes, but not by much. I think the main issue is film registration, that is getting the film to be flat and "co-planar" to the lens so the whole frame is sharp. My n…

It'd be nice if they were able to adapt the Hasselblad/Imacon "virtual drum" concept and curve the film underneath the sensor for side-to-side flatness. I wonder if that's feasible with a 2D sensor.

Thats a good question. I wonder if the "virtual drum" was there to get over film holding issues (as in it physically bends the film) or that its a line scanner

personally I think that technology has come on enough to move on from the imacon/hasselblad: https://emulsive.org/articles/opinion/scanning-film-the-20k-...

Re: A modern 35mm film scanner for home

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Coolscans used RGB LEDs.

Can confirm. I used to write software for them. The issue with LEDs, is very pure colors. That’s actually a bit of a problem, with film scanners. You need a smooth curve, and it needs to extend out a bit. You don’t want areas of color being missed. The Coolscans had a light color response (think the “levels” screen, in Photoshop) that looked like three steep hills, with minimal overlap, but they were able to make the…

I assume the LEDs were matched to the typical pigments used in films though? Because otherwise metamerism just wouldn't work, RGB mixed to some CCT is not white light and can't illuminate arbitrary pigments with any kind of good color reproduction.

Re: A modern 35mm film scanner for home

#157

I got excited and thought this would support 35mm stills (e.g. Kodachrome). Off-topic: does anyone know the best tool for scanning old stills in 2025?

Maybe a mirrorless, a Macro lens, and the Valoi adapter. This is what I use now after having painfully used a Flatbed Epson for years. This set up is fast and sharp. Best of both worlds.

Re: A modern 35mm film scanner for home

#158
Seems like too much time was spent on the concept and website and not that much on the product. I can't help myself but always think those projects are too marketed and engineered to be honest. Film scan should be simple and straight to the point, we don't need this Apple aesthetics and ultra marketing.

"Designed by photographers, for photographers." Nice. Would love to see your pictures then.

Re: A modern 35mm film scanner for home

#160

Seems like too much time was spent on the concept and website and not that much on the product. I can't help myself but always think those projects are too marketed and engineered to be honest. Film scan should be simple and straight to the point, we don't need this Apple aesthetics and ultra marketing. "Designed by photographers, for photographers." Nice. Would love to see your pictures then.

I whole heartly agree, especially

> Would love to see your pictures then.

Without any samples it’s hard for a $999 kickstarter project, considering a Epson V750 scanner costs much less than that but already provides great quality and supports more formats

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