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Perl Regex Removed From Grep in Mountain Lion

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Re: Perl Regex Removed From Grep in Mountain Lion

#31

Post by inthe90s »

glassx wrote: post #29
mynegation wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be a Linux fan, but there you go: Mac OS X as Unix is inferior to Linux. Package management in Ubuntu is second to none, I have newer version of everything, sane terminal colors and fonts out of the box, I don't have to download monstrosity that is Xcode just to get a damn compiler, compiling some non-mainstream sources may not work out of the box.

> I don't have to download monstrosity that is Xcode just to get a damn compiler. They fixed that. On newer OS X versions you can download the Command Line Tools (just 110mb) from Apple's website. You just need a free account: https://developer.apple.com/downloads

Why do I need a free account? What is the purpose of that?

I get a compiler from BSD, which is the source of Apple's code, without needing any account. Apple didn't need an account to get that code from BSD. Apple seems to do a disservice to the notion of the BSD license, which is not to impose restrictions on people (e.g. making them get a developer "account").

Re: Perl Regex Removed From Grep in Mountain Lion

#32

Post by mcpherrinm »

dfc wrote: post #28
mynegation wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be a Linux fan, but there you go: Mac OS X as Unix is inferior to Linux. Package management in Ubuntu is second to none, I have newer version of everything, sane terminal colors and fonts out of the box, I don't have to download monstrosity that is Xcode just to get a damn compiler, compiling some non-mainstream sources may not work out of the box.

Package management in Ubuntu is not second to none, it is second to Debian. Dont get me wrong Ubuntu has done a lot of wonderful things, but lets give credit where credit is due...

I'd actually disagree on this point.

Ubuntu has introduced a number of refinements to the dpkg world that have been pretty good.

Most useful, in my mind, is their set of tools for working with PPAs. They're much simpler to run than setting up an entire new repository of packages.

Re: Perl Regex Removed From Grep in Mountain Lion

#33

Post by droithomme »

inthe90s wrote: post #31
glassx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have to download monstrosity that is Xcode just to get a damn compiler. They fixed that. On newer OS X versions you can download the Command Line Tools (just 110mb) from Apple's website. You just need a free account: https://developer.apple.com/downloads

Why do I need a free account? What is the purpose of that? I get a compiler from BSD, which is the source of Apple's code, without needing any account. Apple didn't need an account to get that code from BSD. Apple seems to do a disservice to the notion of the BSD license, which is not to impose restrictions on people (e.g. making them get a developer "account").

Haven't you heard? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear from a surveillance state in which even your use of a compiler is closely monitored and tagged.

Re: Perl Regex Removed From Grep in Mountain Lion

#34

Post by dfc »

mcpherrinm wrote: post #32
dfc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Package management in Ubuntu is not second to none, it is second to Debian. Dont get me wrong Ubuntu has done a lot of wonderful things, but lets give credit where credit is due...

I'd actually disagree on this point. Ubuntu has introduced a number of refinements to the dpkg world that have been pretty good. Most useful, in my mind, is their set of tools for working with PPAs. They're much simpler to run than setting up an entire new repository of packages.

Seriously? You think that PPAs and your other unnamed improvements tower over the apt package management system? Without PPAs apt-get would be yet another kludgy package management system? Sure apt-add-repository is a nice time saver but how hard is:

  echo deb http://repo.net/ unstable main >> /etc/apt/sources.list
I think we might be miscommunicating because I can't imagine anyone making this argument. I'm not sure how old you are but I can remember what package management was like on slackware and redhat a decade ago when I switched. Moving to debian was like a scene in a movie when it goes from black and white to full color.

Re: Perl Regex Removed From Grep in Mountain Lion

#35

Post by microtherion »

inthe90s wrote: post #31
glassx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have to download monstrosity that is Xcode just to get a damn compiler. They fixed that. On newer OS X versions you can download the Command Line Tools (just 110mb) from Apple's website. You just need a free account: https://developer.apple.com/downloads

Why do I need a free account? What is the purpose of that? I get a compiler from BSD, which is the source of Apple's code, without needing any account. Apple didn't need an account to get that code from BSD. Apple seems to do a disservice to the notion of the BSD license, which is not to impose restrictions on people (e.g. making them get a developer "account").

Apple's current C compiler, clang, did not originate in the BSD project, but is primarily developed by Apple itself.

Re: Perl Regex Removed From Grep in Mountain Lion

#36

Post by wtallis »

inthe90s wrote: post #31
glassx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have to download monstrosity that is Xcode just to get a damn compiler. They fixed that. On newer OS X versions you can download the Command Line Tools (just 110mb) from Apple's website. You just need a free account: https://developer.apple.com/downloads

Why do I need a free account? What is the purpose of that? I get a compiler from BSD, which is the source of Apple's code, without needing any account. Apple didn't need an account to get that code from BSD. Apple seems to do a disservice to the notion of the BSD license, which is not to impose restrictions on people (e.g. making them get a developer "account").

It sounds like you need a reminder that OS X is not based on BSD, it's a different operating system that had a lot of BSD stuff grafted on to the side of it - like Windows, but moreso. Also, BSD doesn't provide a compiler - they use GNU's compiler, and are switching to Apple's compiler.

Re: Perl Regex Removed From Grep in Mountain Lion

#37

Post by jevinskie »

This bit me in our "golden file" checking portion of our product's test suite. I moved the golden file checking regex to a Perl script. Apple's obsession with removing GNU utilities has been annoying but I suppose the test suite should have taken grep portability problems into account.

Re: Perl Regex Removed From Grep in Mountain Lion

#39

Post by inthe90s »

microtherion wrote: post #35
inthe90s wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do I need a free account? What is the purpose of that? I get a compiler from BSD, which is the source of Apple's code, without needing any account. Apple didn't need an account to get that code from BSD. Apple seems to do a disservice to the notion of the BSD license, which is not to impose restrictions on people (e.g. making them get a developer "account").

Apple's current C compiler, clang, did not originate in the BSD project, but is primarily developed by Apple itself.

This is a good point. Although that word "primarily" is interesting.

Is Clang BSD-licensed?

Re: Perl Regex Removed From Grep in Mountain Lion

#40

Post by philh »

dfc wrote: post #34
mcpherrinm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd actually disagree on this point. Ubuntu has introduced a number of refinements to the dpkg world that have been pretty good. Most useful, in my mind, is their set of tools for working with PPAs. They're much simpler to run than setting up an entire new repository of packages.

Seriously? You think that PPAs and your other unnamed improvements tower over the apt package management system? Without PPAs apt-get would be yet another kludgy package management system? Sure apt-add-repository is a nice time saver but how hard is: echo deb http://repo.net/ unstable main >> /etc/apt/sources.list I think we might be miscommunicating because I can't imagine anyone making this argument. I'm not sure h…

Doesn't Ubuntu have apt as well though? Ubuntu's package management may have come from Debian, but that doesn't make it inferior.

It sounds to me like you're trying to make a different argument: that Debian's package management was a bigger deal, in some sense, than Ubuntu's incremental improvements on it.

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