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It was easier to learn to program in several languages than in one

joaquinllaneza.com

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Re: It was easier to learn to program in several languages than in one

#21

Post by ef4 »

I see this story differently. I see a fairly common, two-stage approach toward programming enlightenment.

In the first stage, you simply go forth and try. And you drown in complexity. This stage is important, because it's what motivates the second stage. And we shouldn't underestimate the sheer volume of useful trivia that seeps into one's head here.

In the second stage, you shift focus to the longer-term project of mastering the underlying concepts.

Many people get stuck in stage 1, though some of them manage to have careers in programming anyway.

Other people try to skip straight to stage 2, but they often lack the context to understand why the concepts are important, and so they struggle. I think many people who get frustrated in introductory computer science classes fall into this group.

Re: It was easier to learn to program in several languages than in one

#22

Post by ramblerman »

SquareWheel wrote: post #8
nnq wrote: post #7

...still better then my "getting raped on your first date" type of intro to programming: starting with C on windows before I knew what a "function" was, and being exposed to the win32 api just after learning to write a for loop and before I understood what a pointer really was :) ...and a seep of Perl after all of this to sooth me up ;) ...things seem much easier if your first experience is "hardcore" ...I guess expo…

While I see your point, your analogy makes me really uncomfortable.

what are we supposed to do with this information?

Re: It was easier to learn to program in several languages than in one

#23

Post by blahedo »

ef4 wrote: post #21

I see this story differently. I see a fairly common, two-stage approach toward programming enlightenment. In the first stage, you simply go forth and try. And you drown in complexity. This stage is important, because it's what motivates the second stage. And we shouldn't underestimate the sheer volume of useful trivia that seeps into one's head here. In the second stage, you shift focus to the longer-term project of…

> I think many people who get frustrated in introductory computer science classes fall into this group.

Which is often, to be fair, at least partially the fault of the professor, who structures the course in too much of a jump-straight-to-the-abstraction sort of way. (I include myself in this category---guilty!) I know I've had to learn the hard way just how important it is to take my students through concrete things first and work into the concepts, rather than telling them about a concept (when they're totally unprepared for it) and then expecting them to just do it.

Even now that I'm very aware of the problem, I still relapse when I'm not paying enough attention; and I think a lot of CS professors aren't even aware of the problem.

Re: It was easier to learn to program in several languages than in one

#25

Post by textminer »

MartinCron wrote: post #15

I only really understood my native language syntax until I studied foreign languages. "English Grammar for Students of German" was probably the best thing that happened to my English skills.

Same here. Had no idea why English grammar worked until I studied German. Then I suddenly had solid mechanics backing up my knowledge of English, not just immersion-driven intuition (which is inscrutable, deep-down-- "cuz 'to whom' sounds better, I guess, maybe.").

Re: It was easier to learn to program in several languages than in one

#26

Post by Flimm »

ramblerman wrote: post #22
SquareWheel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I see your point, your analogy makes me really uncomfortable.

what are we supposed to do with this information?

You're supposed to make a mental note that rape analogies make some people feel uncomfortable, reminding yourself to think twice before using them in future.

Re: It was easier to learn to program in several languages than in one

#27

Post by [deleted] »

joaquinzrr wrote: post #11
nnq wrote: post #7

...still better then my "getting raped on your first date" type of intro to programming: starting with C on windows before I knew what a "function" was, and being exposed to the win32 api just after learning to write a for loop and before I understood what a pointer really was :) ...and a seep of Perl after all of this to sooth me up ;) ...things seem much easier if your first experience is "hardcore" ...I guess expo…

hahaha probably

[deleted]

Re: It was easier to learn to program in several languages than in one

#28

Post by nnq »

MartinCron wrote: post #16
nnq wrote: post #7

...still better then my "getting raped on your first date" type of intro to programming: starting with C on windows before I knew what a "function" was, and being exposed to the win32 api just after learning to write a for loop and before I understood what a pointer really was :) ...and a seep of Perl after all of this to sooth me up ;) ...things seem much easier if your first experience is "hardcore" ...I guess expo…

As SquareWheel also said, the rape analogy is pretty tasteless. If you look a little harder, I'm sure you can find a parallel that isn't so cheap and crass.

...geezz ...no rape jokes, no telling people to go and kill themselves? ...I can't even imagine what's next ...where's the fun in life without all the sick & twisted humor and a dash of offensive :) (I know, this particular metaphor I used is quite lazy-minded and unimaginative, I agree, so point take for this...)

Re: It was easier to learn to program in several languages than in one

#29

Post by halbermensch »

joaquinzrr wrote: post #4
halbermensch wrote: post #2

...but not nearly as hard as learning to program well in any single one of them.

you are right, and i still don't master any language. my point is that for someone trying to learn by himself, it may result useful to use several languages, because making comparisons and relating concepts helps to understand things. at least it helped me.

'sall good - both kinds of learning are useful and necessary, actually.
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