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Spatial intelligence is AI’s next frontier

drfeifei.substack.com

71–80 of 136 posts

Re: Spatial intelligence is AI’s next frontier

#71

Just had a fantastic experience applying agentic coding to CAD. I needed to add some threads to a few blanks in a 3d print. I used computational geometry to give the agent a way to "feel" around the model. I had it convolve a sphere of the radius of the connector across the entire model. It was able to use this technique to find the precise positions of the existing ports and then add threads to them. It took a few t…

Unlike an LLM prompt it's REALLY hard to describe the end result of a geometric object in text.

"No put the thingy over there. Not that thingy!"

Re: Spatial intelligence is AI’s next frontier

#72
post #63

Just had a fantastic experience applying agentic coding to CAD. I needed to add some threads to a few blanks in a 3d print. I used computational geometry to give the agent a way to "feel" around the model. I had it convolve a sphere of the radius of the connector across the entire model. It was able to use this technique to find the precise positions of the existing ports and then add threads to them. It took a few t…

Generative CAD has incredible potential. I've had some decent results with OpenSCAD, but it's clear that current models don't have much "common sense" when it comes to how shapes connect. If code-based CAD tools were more common, and we had a bigger corpus to pull from, these tools would probably be pretty usable. Without this, however, it seems like we'll need to train against simulations of the physical world.

[deleted]

Re: Spatial intelligence is AI’s next frontier

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my thinking what AI lacks is a memory system

That has been solved with RAG, OCR-ish image encoding (deepseek recently) and just long context windows in general.

RAG is like constantly reading your notes instead of integrating experiences into your processes.

Re: Spatial intelligence is AI’s next frontier

#74
I would argue that some would add time to that as well, a lot of our data are missing spatial and temporal information. But if we're able to take text2text models and add in audio/vision then I suspect we can apply the same technique to add in spatial and temporal intelligence. However the data for those are non existent unlike audio and visual data.

Re: Spatial intelligence is AI’s next frontier

#76
I think a lot of people are really bad at evaluating world models. Feifei is right here that they are multimodal but really they must codify a physics. I don't mean "physics" but "a physics". I also think it's naïve to think this can be done through data alone. I mean just ask a physicist...[0].

But why people are really bad at evaluating them is because the details dominate. What matters here is consistency. We need invariance to some things and equivariance to others. As evaluators we tend to be hopeful so the subtle changes frame to frame are overlooked though thats kinda the most important part. It can't just be similar to the last frame, but needs be exactly the same. You need equivariance to translation, yet that's still not happening in any of these models (and it's not a limitation of attention or transformers). You're just going to have a really hard time getting all this data even though by doing that you'll look like you're progressing because you're better fitting it. But in the end the models will need to create some compact formulation representing concepts such as motion. Or in other words, a physics. And it's not like physicists aren't know for being detail oriented and nitpicky over nuances. That is breed into then with good reason

[0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hV41QEKiMlM

Re: Spatial intelligence is AI’s next frontier

#77
I think spatial tokens could help, but they're not really necessary. Lots of physics/physical tasks can be solved with pencil and paper.

On the other hand, it's amazing that a 512x512 image can be represented by 85 tokens (as in OAI's API), or 263 tokens per second for video (with Gemini). It's as if the memory vs compute tradeoff has morphed into a memory vs embedding question.

This dichotomy reminds me of the "Apple Rotators - can you rotate the Apple in your head" question. The spatial embeddings will likely solve dynamics questions a lot more intuitively (ie, without extended thinking).

We're also working on this space at FlyShirley - training pilots to fly then training Shirley to fly - where we benefit from established simulation tools. Looking forward to trying Fei Fei's models!

Re: Spatial intelligence is AI’s next frontier

#78
post #65

I think I perceive a massive bottleneck. Today's incarnation of AI learns from the web, not from the interaction with the humans it talks to. And for sure there is a lot of value there, it is just pointless to see that interaction lost a few hundred or thousand words of context later. For humans their 'context' is their life and total memory capacity, that's why we learn from the interaction with other, more experien…

> For humans their 'context' is their life and total memory capacity And some number of billions of years of evolutionary progress. Whatever spacial understanding we have could be thought of as a simulation at a quantum level, the size of the universe, for billions of years. And what can we simulate completely at a quantum level today? Atoms or single cells?

Idealized atoms and very, very simplified single cells.

Re: Spatial intelligence is AI’s next frontier

#79
we've discovered some kind of differentiable computer[1] and as with all computers, people have their own interests and hobbies they use them for. but unlike computers, everyone pitches their interest or hobby as being the only one that matters.

[1] https://x.com/karpathy/status/1582807367988654081

Re: Spatial intelligence is AI’s next frontier

#80

From reading that, I'm not quite sure if they have anything figured out. I actually agree, but her notes are mostly fluff with no real info in there and I do wonder if they have anything figured out besides "collect spatial data" like imagenet. There are actually a lot of people trying to figure out spatial intelligence, but those groups are usually in neuroscience or computational neuroscience. Here is a summary pap…

> From reading that, I'm not quite sure if they have anything figured out. I actually agree, but her notes are mostly fluff with no real info in there and I do wonder if they have anything figured out besides "collect spatial data" like imagenet.

Right. I was thinking about this back in the 1990s. That resulted in a years-long detour through collision detection, physically based animation, solving stiff systems of nonlinear equations, and a way to do legged running over rough terrain. But nothing like "AI". More of a precursor to the analytical solutions of the early Boston Dynamics era.

Work today seems to throw vast amounts of compute at the problem and hope a learning system will come up with a useful internal representation of the spatial world. It's the "bitter lesson" approach. Maybe it will work. Robotic legged locomotion is pretty good now. Manipulation in unstructured situations still sucks. It's amazing how bad it is. There are videos of unstructured robot manipulation from McCarthy's lab at Stanford in the 1960s. They're not that much worse than videos today.

I used to make the comment, pre-LLM, that we needed to get to mouse/squirrel level intelligence rather than trying to get to human level abstract AI. But we got abstract AI first. That surprised me.

There's some progress in video generation which takes a short clip and extrapolates what happens next. That's a promising line of development. The key to "common sense" is being able to predict what happens next well enough to avoid big mistakes in the short term, a few seconds. How's that coming along? And what's the internal world model, assuming we even know?

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