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Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

seattletimes.com

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Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#61

Post by estearum »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #28
notepad0x90 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

"Data Show Trump Would’ve Released as Many Border Crossers as Biden" from the right-wing Cato Institute

> As I previously demonstrated, President Biden removed a higher percentage of border crossers in his first two years than Trump did during his last two years (51 percent versus 47 percent), despite Trump having to deal with many fewer total crossings (Table 1). Congress right now is in a bipartisan state of denial about these three central facts:

> 1) The reason people are being released is because of operational capacity to detain and deport them, not policy.

> 2) Biden has deported vastly greater numbers and a higher share of crossers, but it has not deterred people from crossing.

> 3) The logistics are such that once arrivals exceed the deportation machine’s capacity, people will find out and even more will come.

Feel free to click through for data!

https://www.cato.org/blog/data-show-trump-wouldve-released-m...

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#62

Post by aerostable_slug »

compiler-guy wrote: post #41
aerostable_slug wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It and other ALPR systems real-time alert on things like stolen cars. In my home county they have arrested and convicted criminals due to this. That is fighting crime, by definition. If it was such a bad idea, they shouldn't have installed them in Redmond. Turning them off now because some people assumed things that weren't true is idiocy and sets a bad precedent.

If we made a mistake, we should fix it. Sometimes it takes an actual bad outcome for people to realize that the potential problems weren’t theoretical.

But there wasn't an actual bad outcome. Did anyone read the article? It was all a coincidence.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#63

Post by aerostable_slug »

whatshisface wrote: post #22
aerostable_slug wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my home county they've arrested car thieves and recovered vehicles due to real-time Flock hits. It is not simply for forensic purposes. If it was a bad idea it shouldn't have been installed in the first place. Turning it off now because a few loud people assumed things that weren't true (ICE using the system) is idiotic.

It shouldn't have been installed in the first place, but in real life, sometimes people need a concrete example to realize something others figured out from principles.

There is no concrete example. Nothing actually happened. ICE didn't access the cameras. I feel like I'm the only one who read the article.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#66

Post by fngjdflmdflg »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #20
focusgroup0 wrote: post #7

[flagged]

on the books immigration law has been broken for decades. do you expect people across the border wait a decade to get their turn for an immigration interview only to be turned down, when they can just cross the border? When laws become impractical, they create 11 million law breakers.

Hundreds of thousands to millions of people have come to the US legally each year for the last thirty years.[0] How is that impractical? In fact the share of immigrants in the US has increased significantly (by 3 times) in the last 50 years, and is above the level of the EU, and is at the highest level in the last 100 years in the US.[1][2] Even if legal immigration was set to zero, that shouldn't give people the right to come here illegally.

To be clear I am not making an argument that mass surveillance is needed to solve any problem.

[0] https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/green-card-holders-a...

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2024... via https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/27/u-s-immig...

[2] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.TOTL.ZS?most_rec...

US vs EU vs OECD: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.TOTL.ZS?most_rec... - I'm pretty sure the values here include illegal immigration as well, so if you factor that in the US may be lower than the EU, but again still at historically very high levels.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#67

Post by stocksinsmocks »

cipehr wrote: post #24

A little annoyed, this seems like is has nothing to do with the ICE arrests ... > The city suspended its Flock system because city officials could not guarantee they wouldn’t be forced to release data collected by those devices someday, she said. Key part is " someday ". Seems like the article is implying that flock may have shared this data with ICE which led to the arrests... but there is no proof supporting this..…

[flagged]

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#68

Post by compiler-guy »

aerostable_slug wrote: post #62
compiler-guy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we made a mistake, we should fix it. Sometimes it takes an actual bad outcome for people to realize that the potential problems weren’t theoretical.

But there wasn't an actual bad outcome. Did anyone read the article? It was all a coincidence.

The bad outcome is now a much more real possibility than before, and very front and center.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#69

Post by brianbreslin »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #42
notepad0x90 wrote: post #36

[flagged]

> No matter what, the whole ICE acting like the SS thing will only result in more illegal migration in the long term, like a lot more. How so? What mechanism do you see that goes from "ICE acting like the SS" to "a lot more illegal migration in the long term"? What's the cause and effect here? Not saying you're wrong, necessarily, just... I don't see the causality at all.

My guess is he sees ICE hauling people out of even the courts when they were attempting to abide by the legal processes and will say f-it, why bother, its safer to not adhere. just my assumption of OP's intent.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#70

Post by Izikiel43 »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #36

[flagged]

> will only result in more illegal migration in the long term

Why? Wouldn't it disincentivize illegal immigration by making it much more riskier?

Agreed that the legal immigration system needs an overhaul, these are a lot of people living in limbo, paying taxes and not causing crimes with very few rights. The term no taxation without representation was the reason the USA got founded.

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