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Email verification protocol

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Re: Email verification protocol

#91
Make everything what works complicated.

There is no advantage.

"User privacy is enhanced as the issuer does not learn which web application is making the request as the request is mediated by the browser." Every web application nowadays send you a welcome, onboarding, reminder after the verification. (No user privacy enhancement)

So we get a new process that solves nothing, but makes everything complicated. (And complicated helps the big and hurt the little in th long run)

Not verified but feels like a Google draft that closes the web.

Re: Email verification protocol

#93
post #58
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could consider not using email at all

Any open channel that can be read by a human that could be lucratively scammed will be used the same way.

I don't understand what you mean. This is used for creating an account on a web app. You don't actually need an email or anything else for that.

Re: Email verification protocol

#94
> Verifying control of an email address is a frequent activity on the web today and is used both to prove the user has provided a valid email address

LOL WUT??

This is also ideal in “war dialling” eMail servers to get accurate lists of what eMail accounts exist on said server. This has been the case since marketing first hit the Internet.

Do you really want all of your legitimate eMail addresses to end up on spam lists? Because this is how you get complete and unabridged lists of your domain’s valid eMail addresses onto spam lists.

It’s why my own eMail server is set up to quietly confirm and accept any and all eMail sent to the domain - regardless of username employed. Even invalid eMail accounts get confirmed and incoming eMails to them get accepted.

Anything not sent to a valid account then drops into a catch-all account for further processing. Occasionally I’ll get eMail where the username was misspelled - it happens - and I just forward it to the appropriate family member.

The rest get reported as spam. And I enjoy making every last report. Enjoy ending up on a blacklist.

Re: Email verification protocol

#95
I have a couple of problems with this, although kudos for the author and I won't dismiss this project's usefulness or value.

1) Email shouldn't be used for this purpose. It is inherently insecure. Many have tried, you won't succeed.

2) The subject line of the email should not contain verification details (code), it shouldn't even imply the content of the email. "A secure message from " is enough.

3) The device receiving the verification message is often not the same device that initiated the process. It is very important that users are able to easily type out the code in the webapp, instead of what many do: require a link to be opened.

4) Alright, use email, but don't treat as a special or absolute means of contacting users. The whole "contact user" aspect should be abstracted to a point. Any messaging app that the user would like to use should be used. There are dozens of them, and all of them should be abstracted to the webapp. Managing api keys and integrations sounds like a nightmare, this is one big reason no one is doing it. But again, that's my gripe, this is a solvable problem, services and libraries to make it easier should exist, but where they don't .. the developers of the application should take on the costs associated with supporting them. Maybe not dozens but a handful of messaging protocols, based on target audience can be used (e.g.: Signal,Whatsapp, Weechat, VK, Telegram, Bluesky, Twitter) - 7 api keys to rotate once every few months and you've just made billions of potential users happy!

5) Perhaps the problem is a lack of a "secure address resolution layer" to messaging? Without requiring api keys and all of that, it should be possible to resolve the address of a recipient, encrypt a message to them, using their public key, and simply send it. Messaging apps should support a standard protocol of receiving external messages this way. The protocol should also allow including a "reply" address?

Re: Email verification protocol

#96
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are using a workaround for your privacy, and to prevent spam (not solid at either). The protocol proposes to alleviate a UX burden. The back and forth. it would need Google (and other email provider supporting the + trick) to allow you to certify your ownership of a wild card set of email addresses, i.e anything matching what's before the + and the protocol would work just the same. Absolutely reducing some frict…

> You are using a workaround for your privacy, and to prevent spam (not solid at either). Neither, I do it so I can track which companies sold my email address on without my permission so I can put them on my shit list / report them to my government / shame them on the internet / whatever. > The protocol proposes to alleviate a UX burden. The back and forth. That seems to be _one_ aspect but that assumes you're logge…

Wonder how common it is to leave the +xyz appendix on email addresses when renting/selling them, or if they’ve been regexing them out for years.

Re: Email verification protocol

#97
post #90

Or you just use SMTP and read the 200 response on the SEND?

In extension to that spirit, some SPAM could be eliminated, if more people would turn address verification on in their SMTP servers, which makes the delivery peers symmetric.

Do you mean source or destination address verification or both?

Source address verification doesn't really mean anything (no-reply@example.co.uk) and destination verification is obvious and as far as I am aware pretty much no-one doesn't do it already.

"delivery peers symmetric" - what does that mean?

Re: Email verification protocol

#98
post #96
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are using a workaround for your privacy, and to prevent spam (not solid at either). Neither, I do it so I can track which companies sold my email address on without my permission so I can put them on my shit list / report them to my government / shame them on the internet / whatever. > The protocol proposes to alleviate a UX burden. The back and forth. That seems to be _one_ aspect but that assumes you're logge…

Wonder how common it is to leave the +xyz appendix on email addresses when renting/selling them, or if they’ve been regexing them out for years.

I personally use a different, but still perfectly compliant suffix character. So just simplistic +suffix filtering isn’t complete. I’ve also considered using a double suffix and having the first one be required, so if someone cut off all suffixes it would go into junk anyway.

Re: Email verification protocol

#99
post #91

Make everything what works complicated. There is no advantage. "User privacy is enhanced as the issuer does not learn which web application is making the request as the request is mediated by the browser." Every web application nowadays send you a welcome, onboarding, reminder after the verification. (No user privacy enhancement) So we get a new process that solves nothing, but makes everything complicated. (And comp…

> There is no advantage.

I can't tell you how many times email verification context switches made me completely lose track of what I was doing.

There's literally no worse context switch than having to go into your inbox, wait for an email, then come back to the appropriate tab to complete registration or login.

There are probably dozens, maybe hundreds, of services I never finished registering for all on account of this problem.

I worked authc/authz and security for a large fintech and we constantly butted heads against the growth folks. They fought hard and eventually won the right to do account creation and IDV without email verification. You don't have to verify your email until you're already making transactions, and that does wonders for growth. We're still accountable for all the stringent KYC regulations, of course.

Re: Email verification protocol

#100
post #99
post #91

Make everything what works complicated. There is no advantage. "User privacy is enhanced as the issuer does not learn which web application is making the request as the request is mediated by the browser." Every web application nowadays send you a welcome, onboarding, reminder after the verification. (No user privacy enhancement) So we get a new process that solves nothing, but makes everything complicated. (And comp…

> There is no advantage. I can't tell you how many times email verification context switches made me completely lose track of what I was doing. There's literally no worse context switch than having to go into your inbox, wait for an email, then come back to the appropriate tab to complete registration or login. There are probably dozens, maybe hundreds, of services I never finished registering for all on account of t…

And when a customer fat fingered their email address and that fintech company didn't bother verifying email addresses, policy probably prohibited granting a request from the email address owner to remove their address from the account because they're not the financial account owner. Fortunately for that company, financial institutions seem to avoid Gmail's spam filter no matter how many times I mark those emails as spam.
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