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Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

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Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#251

Post by ungreased0675 »

ViewTrick1002 wrote: post #195
2b3a51 wrote: post #190

Just wondering if there is any potential for coasting with these smaller ships? Replacing lorries for port to port travel say in med or along Atlantic coast of Europe. Coasting ships were the main cargo transport before trains and for some time after in the UK. Even as late as 1950s a fair percentage of cargo came in and out of London on relatively small ships from UK ports and Europe mainland. Before containerisatio…

The problem is always multi-modality. Switching modes of transport increases cost and complexity. The volumes also needs to be very large for it to be worth it. Switching from just point to point trucking to truck -> ship -> truck needs to have extremely large efficiency gains in the ship portion to be worth it.

We’d need to automate cargo handling, which is something the longshoremen union fights very hard against.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#252

Post by throw-qqqqq »

mlhpdx wrote: post #93
nradov wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much sail area would it take to move a 20000 TEU ship at, let's say, even 12 kts? How tall would the masts have to be? Would they fit under bridges? You guys are talking about total fantasies here.

The power required would be the same as that provided by the bunker fuel engines in common use. Modern, computer controlled sails are efficient and very powerful. It’s obviously working for this ship, which is a conservative build.

I think nradov has a point about the physics.

> The power required would be the same as that provided by the bunker fuel engines in common use

And that is a lot of power! Emma Mærsk has an engine output around 80-90MW.

The largest off shore wind turbine today is 26MW with a rotor diameter north of 300m/1000ft(!!). Common (modern) offshore wind turbines today are about 10-15MW with rotor diameters of ~220m/720ft.

I will not conclude it is impossible at this end of the scale, but you need a huge foil area to match such engine output.

IIUC, the physics work against us as we scale up in size, because of the square/cube-law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square%E2%80%93cube_law (weight of the foil/sail + mast is cubed when the area is squared).

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#253

Post by throw-qqqqq »

hvb2 wrote: post #121
nradov wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much sail area would it take to move a 20000 TEU ship at, let's say, even 12 kts? How tall would the masts have to be? Would they fit under bridges? You guys are talking about total fantasies here.

> Would they fit under bridges? You do realize that none of those ships could get into any port, right? We've made modifications to accommodate that. I tend to agree with you that putting a fixed sail on top of a container vessel won't fly. Maybe ships would need to be smaller. I think the size of ships was mostly increased because it makes it more efficient. But if fuel is free, you could have smaller ships take dir…

> > Would they fit under bridges?

> You do realize that none of those ships could get into any port, right?

Container ships sail under bridges all the time. Check YouTube for videos of this or just Google it if you want proof.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#254

Post by [deleted] »

afh1 wrote: post #230
nullhole wrote: post #73

They have a passenger service too! €3200 for France Baltimore, 13 day trip. But with that you get three meals a day, a decent looking cabin, private bathroom, private balcony, and internet service (though how solid the connection is / what surcharges there may be is a question). ~€250/d doesn't sound too bad, and you could get work done along the way. Kind of sounds nice... https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/…

You get a glimpse of how dislocated from reality the HN crowd is when "€250/d doesn't sound too bad".

[deleted]

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#255

Post by hvb2 »

throw-qqqqq wrote: post #253
hvb2 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would they fit under bridges? You do realize that none of those ships could get into any port, right? We've made modifications to accommodate that. I tend to agree with you that putting a fixed sail on top of a container vessel won't fly. Maybe ships would need to be smaller. I think the size of ships was mostly increased because it makes it more efficient. But if fuel is free, you could have smaller ships take dir…

> > Would they fit under bridges? > You do realize that none of those ships could get into any port, right? Container ships sail under bridges all the time. Check YouTube for videos of this or just Google it if you want proof.

Yes I understand, my point was that we've adjusted ports to make room for container ships. So making some adjustments isn't out of the question.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#256

Post by fsckboy »

potato3732842 wrote: post #216
gsf_emergency_4 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interviews with CEO, where he stresses that the main problem is not sailing upwind but to get there on time. https://youtu.be/qhAlImSIDyU https://youtu.be/QfHJE1UwMTw Another contender https://youtu.be/xsFc3pro8Y8 (Also FR based, cultural reason?)

Getting there on time is just a figment of the fact that you have to effectively sail further when sailing upwind.

so what you're saying is, there's no problem sailing upwind, you just need to worry about getting there on time?

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#258

Post by f_allwein »

nullhole wrote: post #73

They have a passenger service too! €3200 for France Baltimore, 13 day trip. But with that you get three meals a day, a decent looking cabin, private bathroom, private balcony, and internet service (though how solid the connection is / what surcharges there may be is a question). ~€250/d doesn't sound too bad, and you could get work done along the way. Kind of sounds nice... https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/…

You could also take the Queen Mary2 from Southampton to New York. 8 nights, from 920 GBP: https://www.seat61.com/queen-mary-2-transatlantic.htm

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#259

Post by LightBug1 »

brucehoult wrote: post #172
nullhole wrote: post #73

They have a passenger service too! €3200 for France Baltimore, 13 day trip. But with that you get three meals a day, a decent looking cabin, private bathroom, private balcony, and internet service (though how solid the connection is / what surcharges there may be is a question). ~€250/d doesn't sound too bad, and you could get work done along the way. Kind of sounds nice... https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/…

No reason why they wouldn't have Starlink today. Or you could take your own Starlink Mini.

[flagged]

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#260

Post by segmondy »

BurningFrog wrote: post #72

This ship carries 5300 tonnes of cargo. The average transoceanic container ship carries around 150,000 to 250,000 tonnes.

The real question is how much does it cost to transport a ton of cargo compared to the average transoceanic ship?
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