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Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

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Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#171

Post by hnaccount_rng »

nradov wrote: post #51
bloudermilk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sincere question: have you done the math? If so, this conversation would be a lot more interesting if you shared it.

How much sail area would it take to move a 20000 TEU ship at, let's say, even 12 kts? How tall would the masts have to be? Would they fit under bridges? You guys are talking about total fantasies here.

But you don't need 12kts, right? The ocean logistics is ~only about costs, as evidenced by the reduction in travel speed. That being said, cost is currently not dominated by fuel cost either. That means unless you reduce crewing requirements or build cost, there is probably not much savings that will pencil out. Plus you'd need more ships and the physical capacity to build more is limited

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#172

Post by brucehoult »

nullhole wrote: post #73

They have a passenger service too! €3200 for France Baltimore, 13 day trip. But with that you get three meals a day, a decent looking cabin, private bathroom, private balcony, and internet service (though how solid the connection is / what surcharges there may be is a question). ~€250/d doesn't sound too bad, and you could get work done along the way. Kind of sounds nice... https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/…

No reason why they wouldn't have Starlink today. Or you could take your own Starlink Mini.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#173

Post by pmontra »

SirHumphrey wrote: post #156
krasin wrote: post #140

In the meantime, China is constructing nuclear cargo ships ([1], [2]) that will be able to transport 14,000 containers at full throttle (200MW) without a need to refuel for years. Obviously, it's still not done, and yet to prove to be profitable, but their reactor design does suggest that they have a chance to make it work and replace a lot of CO2 emissions. 1. Original article, but paywall: https://www.scmp.com/news…

Nuclear ship propulsion is not a new technology so I have no doubt they will succeed. But where this will and all previous attempts have (see: N.S. Savannah) failed is that ports do not want to accept such ships, because of environmental and insurance issues.

China owns some ports abroad and probably they have enough leverage in some of those countries to let their ships dock there.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#174

Post by Maxion »

defrost wrote: post #11
tengwar2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an area I have some peripheral involvement with. For retrofitted sails on bulkers, the figure of 10% saving in fuel is the usual one mentioned rather than 20%. However given the long life of ships, there is much more interest in retrofit than in new build. You mention container ships. I haven't seen anything explicit on these, and I think the reason is probably that they cruise much faster than bulkers and ta…

Retro fit is clearly a preferred path for a new approach given ship life spans and size of existing global transport fleet. My gut objection to the container approach taken above in the first link was existing container locking mechanisms for ships can struggle in severe weather to keep the boxes on the boat .. additional forces from a sail (in good weather) might well mimic the forces that break stacks in bad weathe…

I'm sure there's plenty of businesses out there who'd love to advertise near zero or zero emissions transport for their goods, with the caveat that they have to plan a few more months ahead.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#175

Post by hgomersall »

jopsen wrote: post #119
gtowey wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the point? Ships are complex machines and the ocean is an incredibly harsh and unforgiving environment. You would need crew to simply maintain the ship while underway and fix things that break (which pretty much always happens). Next, these ships can be downright dangerous for other, smaller ships. It has happened before that large cargo ships have killed people on sailboats when they didn't keep an ade…

Also if the ship is large enough to send economically feasible, the value of the cargo is so huge that a few crew won't affect the bill.

There are plenty of reports of crews being overworked and underslept, so clearly some shipping companies still cut corners as regards staffing.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#176

Post by Maxion »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #118
gerdesj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"suggested masts are better as integral parts of ships rather than bolt on after thoughts." It seems quite mad that we even need to debate this. Wind is free power and we have at least 2000 years of engineering to draw on how to use it. Any propulsion unit needs to be effectively attached to a ship. Screws are attached longitudinally, low down and push. Sails are a bit more tricksy. A triangular sail mounted along th…

This is all interesting, but is there a reason trianglular and rectangular sails can't be bolt on after thoughts?

For the sails to be an effective means of propulsion they need to transfer a lot of force through the mast and stays to the hull. This require the attachment points to be very solid. Not something you can easily do as a retrofit. You'd need to reinforc the hull aroud the mast and stay attachments.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#177

Post by namibj »

nullhole wrote: post #73

They have a passenger service too! €3200 for France Baltimore, 13 day trip. But with that you get three meals a day, a decent looking cabin, private bathroom, private balcony, and internet service (though how solid the connection is / what surcharges there may be is a question). ~€250/d doesn't sound too bad, and you could get work done along the way. Kind of sounds nice... https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/…

As always capped at 12 passengers by SOLAS: the convention classifies every merchant ship with more than 12 passengers as a passenger ship not merely a cargo ship; AFAIK the worst (to profitability) effect is that the ship suddenly needs to carry a doctor.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#178

Post by namibj »

dhosek wrote: post #84
nullhole wrote: post #73

They have a passenger service too! €3200 for France Baltimore, 13 day trip. But with that you get three meals a day, a decent looking cabin, private bathroom, private balcony, and internet service (though how solid the connection is / what surcharges there may be is a question). ~€250/d doesn't sound too bad, and you could get work done along the way. Kind of sounds nice... https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/…

The first thing I thought when I saw the article was, I wonder if they have passenger service.

Many freighters have space for the 12 passengers they're allowed to carry before they get reclassified to passenger ship with all the post-Titanic SOLAS requirements those incur.

The first 12 however are easy, they self-select to be low-maintenance, they just get their breakfast/lunch/dinner portion from the ship's cook, and have their cabin. A little electricity, reasonable running water, and they're contend. Essentially a hotel room plus partaking the staff dinner/in-House-catering.

Most people just can't handle the boredom these days, and many don't have that many days to spare, either.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#179

Post by beezlewax »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #39

This seems to be a tiny vessel ... just 5000 tons of cargo. Most container ships carry more like 200,000 tons of cargo. Can sails scale to carry that much cargo? If not, I fear the economics will not work out for sails alone. Perhaps sails plus something else makes more sense?

Why does that cargo all have to be on giant ships vs tons of smaller ones?

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#180

Post by Gud »

urig wrote: post #123
rdtsc wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use it for luxury goods! "Why _my_ iphone arrived in Baltimore on a clean cargo ship, so yeah, ..." I am only half joking. Anything luxury of vanity related, just add the fact they've gotten to the consumer on a clean ship and you'll find some people to pay extra for it. The more expensive the better. They can brag about it to each other.

Bottom line: impressive optics, zero impact for this technology on global warming, it's a distraction.

You always start small.
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