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Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

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Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#91

Post by rkomorn »

bergie wrote: post #86
rkomorn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it somewhat inconsistent that you feel people's choice of indoor temperature is an imposition on you, but also that your choice of sailboat should entitle you to having something that is literally hundreds of times larger and less nimble than you have to make the effort to go around you.

> that your choice of sailboat should entitle you to having something that is literally hundreds of times larger and less nimble than you have to make the effort to go around you. That's how the rules of the road work. See: COLREGs. We also travel by a small sailboat, and it is always reassuring to see huge tankers make small course changes tens of nautical miles away. That way everybody stays safe and nobody is majo…

I know it's the rule of the road, but that's not the point.

The point is the inconsistency in tone between "your life choices make me go around your wind farm, that makes my life difficult", and "my life choices make your giant freighter go around me, I have right of way".

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#92

Post by mlhpdx »

aerostable_slug wrote: post #50
mlhpdx wrote: post #25

Fun fact: the fastest way to get around the world by boat is on a sailboat. Wild, but true.

Faster than an American attack submarine or aircraft carrier?

In a word, probably (but without documented speed runs who knows?).

Circumnavigation is a longer voyage than those craft would travel in one go, and the stops would increase their transit time. Even without that it would be a close competition with the latest class of racing sailboats that are able able to maintain very similar speeds, and the next generation will be decidedly faster.

Things have changed.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#93

Post by mlhpdx »

nradov wrote: post #51
bloudermilk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sincere question: have you done the math? If so, this conversation would be a lot more interesting if you shared it.

How much sail area would it take to move a 20000 TEU ship at, let's say, even 12 kts? How tall would the masts have to be? Would they fit under bridges? You guys are talking about total fantasies here.

The power required would be the same as that provided by the bunker fuel engines in common use. Modern, computer controlled sails are efficient and very powerful. It’s obviously working for this ship, which is a conservative build.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#94

Post by ofalkaed »

davidjade wrote: post #88
ofalkaed wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large ship is very unlikely to just instantly destroy and sink a small sailboat, bow wave pushes it aside and destroys the rigging leaving the boat adrift, crew either abandons it or scuttles it when rescued unless they are near land and can be towed.

Having witnessed a large commercial ship going 15 kts run over a smaller 30 foot sailboat I can assure you it was not “pushed aside” unless by aside you mean pushed under.

If hit just right it would destroy the boat but that is a one in a million hit. The shape of displacement hulls and their need to part and push the water aside so they can move through the water will almost always mean that small boats will be pushed aside and damaged but not sunk. An open boat (which a small number of 30' sailboats are) would be a different story, the hit would almost certainly heel them enough to flood and sink them, but I think it is obvious that I am not talking about open boats but boats with a deck and a cabin that you can live in. I could be wrong in that assumption, many do not know the difference between an open and a decked boat and I could have been more clear there.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#95

Post by aerostable_slug »

mlhpdx wrote: post #92
aerostable_slug wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Faster than an American attack submarine or aircraft carrier?

In a word, probably (but without documented speed runs who knows?). Circumnavigation is a longer voyage than those craft would travel in one go, and the stops would increase their transit time. Even without that it would be a close competition with the latest class of racing sailboats that are able able to maintain very similar speeds, and the next generation will be decidedly faster. Things have changed.

American submarines and aircraft carriers are nuclear-powered. They can sustain over 30 knots without stopping effectively indefinitely. They make their own water and, where needed, breathing air. The only thing they need to stop for is food, and they have enough aboard to circumnavigate the globe easily.

It would be really hard to sustain an average speed of 30 knots in a sailing vessel for the entire journey. Certainly you'd need the assistance of the wind deities of your choice. Central to commercial travel by wind is the predictability or lack thereof with wind power. It would be tough to run a tight supply chain when you don't know when one's ship will arrive within a reasonable window. For that reason, I think the future can't really be purely wind-powered for most commodities, it's just not predictable enough to build schedules around.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#96

Post by mlhpdx »

ofalkaed wrote: post #75
brk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to read more about the right of way rules and USCG apportionment in maritime accidents. In the scenario you describe you most definitely would not be getting a new boat.

What makes you think the USCG has any bearing on my life? Even if I am an American I stated that my dream was to be blown about the oceans, which strongly implies that I will be out of USCG jurisdiction the majority of the time. You are right in context of a busy seaway like New York Harbor but in that situation a sailing freighter will be under power, not under sail and anyone in a small sailboat will be very alert.…

I’m not sure where people get the idea of the rules don’t apply in international waters. The COLREGs clearly state commercial vessels have right away over recreational sailboats. End of story. You get run over by a commercial vessel, it’s your fault for being in the way but it’s their fault for running you down.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#97

Post by ofalkaed »

rkomorn wrote: post #91
bergie wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that your choice of sailboat should entitle you to having something that is literally hundreds of times larger and less nimble than you have to make the effort to go around you. That's how the rules of the road work. See: COLREGs. We also travel by a small sailboat, and it is always reassuring to see huge tankers make small course changes tens of nautical miles away. That way everybody stays safe and nobody is majo…

I know it's the rule of the road, but that's not the point. The point is the inconsistency in tone between "your life choices make me go around your wind farm, that makes my life difficult", and "my life choices make your giant freighter go around me, I have right of way".

Small sail boats do not need to go around wind farms, they can just sail right through them assuming the weather is agreeable. The problem is more that if you are caught up in a storm anywhere near a windfarm (within range of the storm carrying you into it) it makes everything very dangerous for you; instead of dropping sail and letting the boat find its way through the storm from the safety of below decks you have to stay on deck and fight the storm. To put this into metropolitan terms, it would be like routing the main pedestrian path through the most dangerous part of town for the sake of a highway.

Either way, to repeat myself again, I did not say I was right or better and plainly stated my mixed feelings.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#98

Post by mlhpdx »

aerostable_slug wrote: post #95
mlhpdx wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a word, probably (but without documented speed runs who knows?). Circumnavigation is a longer voyage than those craft would travel in one go, and the stops would increase their transit time. Even without that it would be a close competition with the latest class of racing sailboats that are able able to maintain very similar speeds, and the next generation will be decidedly faster. Things have changed.

American submarines and aircraft carriers are nuclear-powered. They can sustain over 30 knots without stopping effectively indefinitely. They make their own water and, where needed, breathing air. The only thing they need to stop for is food, and they have enough aboard to circumnavigate the globe easily. It would be really hard to sustain an average speed of 30 knots in a sailing vessel for the entire journey. Certa…

That’s correct, but look up the Gitana 17.

> The Gitana 17 is a 100ft trimaran designed to foil offshore at sustained speeds of 45 knots or more.

Also, 1964, the all-nuclear Task Force One, including the USS Enterprise, completed a high-speed circumnavigation in 65 days.

The winner of the Vende Globe did it in 64. And that was solo (one person on board).

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#99

Post by gtowey »

adriand wrote: post #80
BurningFrog wrote: post #72

This ship carries 5300 tonnes of cargo. The average transoceanic container ship carries around 150,000 to 250,000 tonnes.

Could you have autonomous ships this size, like a waymo for the ocean?

What would be the point? Ships are complex machines and the ocean is an incredibly harsh and unforgiving environment. You would need crew to simply maintain the ship while underway and fix things that break (which pretty much always happens).

Next, these ships can be downright dangerous for other, smaller ships. It has happened before that large cargo ships have killed people on sailboats when they didn't keep an adequate lookout. I wouldn't trust an autonomous system to have enough accuracy to avoid running over other boats.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#100

Post by lastofthemojito »

nullhole wrote: post #73

They have a passenger service too! €3200 for France Baltimore, 13 day trip. But with that you get three meals a day, a decent looking cabin, private bathroom, private balcony, and internet service (though how solid the connection is / what surcharges there may be is a question). ~€250/d doesn't sound too bad, and you could get work done along the way. Kind of sounds nice... https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/…

Considering it's a roll-on/roll-off ship, they're this close to providing a transatlantic passenger+vehicle ferry service, which would really be fun.
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