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Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

marineinsight.com

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Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#51

Post by nradov »

bloudermilk wrote: post #36
nradov wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am familiar with modern sailing technology. Very little of it is applicable to huge merchant vessels. This project is a cute little stunt but it's never going to be economical for moving bulk cargo. Sails will be a minor supplement at best. Seriously, do the math.

Sincere question: have you done the math? If so, this conversation would be a lot more interesting if you shared it.

How much sail area would it take to move a 20000 TEU ship at, let's say, even 12 kts? How tall would the masts have to be? Would they fit under bridges? You guys are talking about total fantasies here.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#53

Post by forgotusername6 »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #39

This seems to be a tiny vessel ... just 5000 tons of cargo. Most container ships carry more like 200,000 tons of cargo. Can sails scale to carry that much cargo? If not, I fear the economics will not work out for sails alone. Perhaps sails plus something else makes more sense?

That's still roughly 5 Cutty Sarks (1100 tons at 15 knots average speed)

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#54

Post by ofalkaed »

As someone whose goal in life is to be blown about the oceans by the wind, I have mixed feelings about this. With the "traditional" freighter I would have the right of way, my being a sailboat under the wisdom of the wind, they have to make allowances for me and change course, but things are different when that freighter is also under the wisdom of the wind. The same goes for things like offshore wind power, my life is made more difficult because most people expect their home to be 70F when it is 60F outside and 60F when it is 70F outside, anything else would incur undue hardship.

It is a complex situation, should I be penalized for wanting to live a life that has little or no environmental impact at cost of those who want to live in reasonable comfort while being a part of/contributing to, society? Probably not but I can't help but wonder about what happened to the first 'R' of the three R's (reduce, reuse and recycle), no one seems to reduce anymore unless technology gives them a way to do it without any inconvenience no matter how small that inconvenience is.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#55

Post by forgotusername6 »

_yb2s wrote: post #20
nradov wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got to be kidding. Using a fully sail powered cargo vessel is a PR stunt, not the way of the future. Regular motorized cargo vessels will probably use some form of sails to slightly reduce fuel burn on downwind legs but it's physically impossible to move huge volumes of cargo purely by sail power in an economical way. There just isn't enough energy in the wind.

There’s more than enough energy in the wind, and modern sailing technology has come a long ways. Some modern recreational sailboats can cross an ocean as fast as a cargo ship on just wind power, and speed isn’t even much of a factor for a lot of shipping. With the right tech I think fuel free shipping can disrupt fossil fuel shipping just by being cheaper. Back when engines first replaced sailing fuel was nearly free…

When engines first replaced sail, sail boats also required far higher crew numbers to operate. That's not the case today

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#56

Post by Unearned5161 »

ofalkaed wrote: post #54

As someone whose goal in life is to be blown about the oceans by the wind, I have mixed feelings about this. With the "traditional" freighter I would have the right of way, my being a sailboat under the wisdom of the wind, they have to make allowances for me and change course, but things are different when that freighter is also under the wisdom of the wind. The same goes for things like offshore wind power, my life…

I think "reduce" has always been pipe dream by the de-growth sector. At its core I'm not convinced that humans can ever willfully engage in managed decline. When I say this I mean societies, large groups, cities, etc. Not individuals. De-growth has a serious scaling issue. It's fundamentally incompatible with the bedrock of why humans come together.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#57

Post by caconym_ »

turpialito wrote: post #44

Napkin calculation: The Neoliner Origin cruises at 11 kts (20Km/h). "Straight line" on Google Earth from Saint-Nazaire to NY is about 5300 Km, so it crosses the Atlantic in 18 days. The Emma Maersk (which I am aware plies a different route, but just for comparison's sake) cruises at 25kts (46Km/h) and therefore takes about 5 days.

Another interesting comparison: the Emma Maersk can carry ~154,000 tons of cargo, vs. this vessel's ~5,800 tons (if i'm juggling my tons and long tonnes and tonnes correctly).

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#58

Post by agentultra »

ofalkaed wrote: post #54

As someone whose goal in life is to be blown about the oceans by the wind, I have mixed feelings about this. With the "traditional" freighter I would have the right of way, my being a sailboat under the wisdom of the wind, they have to make allowances for me and change course, but things are different when that freighter is also under the wisdom of the wind. The same goes for things like offshore wind power, my life…

A freighter is always the stand on vessel when you’re sailing. They don’t have the turning radius to even try!

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#59

Post by ofalkaed »

Unearned5161 wrote: post #56
ofalkaed wrote: post #54

As someone whose goal in life is to be blown about the oceans by the wind, I have mixed feelings about this. With the "traditional" freighter I would have the right of way, my being a sailboat under the wisdom of the wind, they have to make allowances for me and change course, but things are different when that freighter is also under the wisdom of the wind. The same goes for things like offshore wind power, my life…

I think "reduce" has always been pipe dream by the de-growth sector. At its core I'm not convinced that humans can ever willfully engage in managed decline. When I say this I mean societies, large groups, cities, etc. Not individuals. De-growth has a serious scaling issue. It's fundamentally incompatible with the bedrock of why humans come together.

Maybe? I don't think this is beyond societies, but it does require society to expect it. The idea of reducing had an effect on society back in the 80s and into the 90s, people did reduce, but it didn't last. This is not "de-growth," unless you think growth is a measure of the number of people who live a life a leisure.

Re: Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

#60

Post by chrisweekly »

ofalkaed wrote: post #54

As someone whose goal in life is to be blown about the oceans by the wind, I have mixed feelings about this. With the "traditional" freighter I would have the right of way, my being a sailboat under the wisdom of the wind, they have to make allowances for me and change course, but things are different when that freighter is also under the wisdom of the wind. The same goes for things like offshore wind power, my life…

> "With the "traditional" freighter I would have the right of way"

In theory, perhaps. In praxis, might makes right, bigger wins, and if you in your sailboat want to play chicken with a freighter of any kind, you're taking an unreasonable risk. Actually, commercial boats get priority over pleasurecraft, so even in theory it's probably your job to stay out of the way.

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