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IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

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Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#131

Post by Hizonner »

rootusrootus wrote: post #99
bbor wrote: post #36

So the story behind the title is that the UK gov claims that the IP block wasn't working? And the author agrees that IP blocks can't really work, even? Separate from the free speech debate, the international law part of this seems pretty cut and dry. Here's the bolded parts: So, it appears, as with 4chan, Ofcom has elected to proceed with a mock execution... Ofcom is trying to set the precedent that... you have to fo…

> I don't understand what legal principle it would be violating? Jurisdiction? Don't you first have to commit the crime in the jurisdiction in question?

A government can claim jurisdiction over anything worldwide. A different government can disagree.

The two may negotiate over that, in which case common sense ideas like "they didn't do it in your territory" may make one side look foolish, which may in fact have a real influence over the outcome of the negotiations.

If they can't come to an agreement, then it may become a matter of whether the "offender" happens to travel somewhere where they can be grabbed. In the end, jurisdiction is about who has the power to enforce their laws. There's no universally-agreed-upon uber-legal system to make it otherwise.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#133

Post by aDyslecticCrow »

iamnothere wrote: post #119
aDyslecticCrow wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I'm operating a Web site in country A, I should not have to care about country B's laws Not defending UK's idiotic laws, but this doesn't hold. If you cannot regulate websites outside of the country of origin, then no internet regulation can hold for any subject. Openly selling stolen personal credentials or botnet usage? Piracy? Reselling personal information without disclosure? So there are effectively three o…

If country B doesn’t like it, block the site in question. You’re not going to extradite US site operators, period. Find another approach.

Then no country should have legal authority over companies operating in the country but based internationally. You could earn a lot of money by selling unregistered firearms, pipe bombs or drugs over the internet and sending it over the border.

"If country B doesn’t like it, block the mail in question". Saying only the country of origin can regulate activity done in another country creates a legal worm-bucket with vast implications. It's also not how laws work currently in pretty much any other sector than the internet.

IP block should be sufficient to void the laws; That's how other EU laws work. If the UK wants more than than then they should just create a firewall. But saying the internet should be a fully unregulated hellscape is not a sensible position here.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#134

Post by em-bee »

HPsquared wrote: post #125
landl0rd wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, one has chosen to make something available for contact within one country. One is not actively himself reaching across borders to do so. One cannot reasonably be required to take any affirmative action to fulfill the whims of a foreign government. Also, Britain isn't important enough to make this stick against e.g. an American. If someone writes me a letter asking a question about material that is prohibited in h…

The client requests content from a server. The server may be abroad. It's the same as ordering goods from abroad, only much faster. I wonder what the law is for importing goods that are illegal in the destination country.

whatever the laws are, they are the responsibility of the importer, not the producer.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#135

Post by chihuahua »

sergiotapia wrote: post #104

I'm in the USA - can't I just wipe my ass with this thing just like I would from a lawsuit from Zimbabwe?

Up to a certain point, yes - if you never leave the U.S. and don't anticipate that the U.S. government will at some point extradite you to the UK. And if you travel to other countries, one of those could decide to extradite you to the UK. That is less likely with a lawsuit from Zimbabwe than a lawsuit from the UK. In other words, it depends on how much international influence the country in question has.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#136

Post by hardlianotion »

This is how the UK government, faced with pressing issues, chooses to waste its time and destroy its remaining reputation for competence.

There was never any chance that this would fly outside the country, least of all in the USA. Whoever gave Ofcom the extraterritorial power it has to pursue these goals clearly intended to ensure its failure, and for this I am grateful.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#137

Post by pirates »

mlhpdx wrote: post #123
iamnothere wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If country B doesn’t like it, block the site in question. You’re not going to extradite US site operators, period. Find another approach.

That’s what they’re doing

It’s not at all what they’re doing, and claiming so is either extreme ignorance of the situation or deliberately lying.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#138

Post by miki123211 »

aDyslecticCrow wrote: post #111
Hizonner wrote: post #55

You shouldn't even be expected to geoblock. If I'm operating a Web site in country A, I should not have to care about country B's laws unless I am taking specific action intended to attract users in country B in particular . That's doesn't mean just to target the whole world, either. If you don't want your citizens to access something in another country, take it up with your citizens. It was obvious from the minute t…

> If I'm operating a Web site in country A, I should not have to care about country B's laws Not defending UK's idiotic laws, but this doesn't hold. If you cannot regulate websites outside of the country of origin, then no internet regulation can hold for any subject. Openly selling stolen personal credentials or botnet usage? Piracy? Reselling personal information without disclosure? So there are effectively three o…

Another option is an anti-money-laundering like system.

It would need to be set up by an extremely powerful country, either the US or an alliance of smaller countries through international treaty.

It would work as follows:

There'd be a "naughty list." Anybody on the list would be arrested upon entering a participating country. This would include past or current company employees (if employed after the listing date). Companies from participating countries would be prohibited from interacting with listed organizations in any way, under treat of sanctions. This would include VPN, cloud and hosting companies, ISPs, domain registrars, email hosts, payment processors and ad networks. This would provide basic site blocking.

Foreign companies wouldn't be subject to the sanctions, but participating countries would also put them on the list.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#139

Post by chihuahua »

mrlonglong wrote: post #116
HotGarbage wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not blocking them, they're actively seeking fines, even after the site takes it upon themselves to block the UK.

Ah, now that's silly of our dear UK Govt. Bit of an overreach there, and oh definitely they'll get bitch slapped.

It would be a lot easier for the UK to just block any site they don't like. Especially when the concern is ostensibly to protect UK citizens from harm.

Re: IP blocking the UK is not enough to comply with the Online Safety Act

#140

Post by greyface- »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #115
owl_vision wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what happens if an IP address is not in the geo db? For example: 2606:4700::6811:

You check the country the ASN behind the IP belongs to.

RIRs don't prohibit out-of-region use of IP addresses or ASNs registered in their region. The country an IP is registered in is not necessarily the country it's being used in.
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