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Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

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Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#31

Post by ivan_gammel »

seneca wrote: post #18
standardUser wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think anyone is meaningfully harmed by being algorithmically shown job ads stereotypical of one gender rather than another If you show me a lower paying girl job instead of a higher paying boy job, and I apply for and get the girl job, how is the company tricking me into applying for the lower paying job based on my gender not a problem to you? How was I not harmed by having a better opportunity hidden from…

> If you show me a lower paying girl job instead of a higher paying boy job, and I apply for and get the girl job, how is the company tricking me into applying for the lower paying job based on my gender not a problem to you? How as I not harmed by having a better opportunity hidden from me based on my presumed gender? Not highlighting something to you is not the same as hiding it from you. If you want a job atypical…

The most efficient advertising of jobs is not gender-based, it’s skill-based. Ideally you need to show your ads to candidates with exact match to job description and then some more if the pool is too small. It has nothing to do with gender.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#32

Post by fastball »

standardUser wrote: post #11
JuniperMesos wrote: post #3

> The Netherlands Institute for Human Rights said in a February 18 decision that Facebook’s algorithm reinforced gender stereotypes by mainly showing “typically female professions” to female Facebook users in the Netherlands and that Meta (META), the social platform’s owner, should have monitored and adjusted its algorithm to prevent that. > For example, ads for mechanic positions were predominantly shown to men, whi…

> I don't think anyone is meaningfully harmed by being algorithmically shown job ads stereotypical of one gender rather than another If you show me a lower paying girl job instead of a higher paying boy job, and I apply for and get the girl job, how is the company tricking me into applying for the lower paying job based on my gender not a problem to you? How was I not harmed by having a better opportunity hidden from…

You are not owed either job. Getting a high-paying "boy job" is your own responsibility if you want one.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#33

Post by wiseowise »

cm2012 wrote: post #12
paperhatwriter wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you think this?

The algorithm is responding to people's revealed preferences in what job ads they want to see

How far are you willing to stretch this? What about skin color? Nationality? Religion?

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#34

Post by inglor_cz »

vlovich123 wrote: post #13
inglor_cz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the anti-discrimination laws based on anything else than feelings of their proponents with regard to what is wrong and what is right? If this sort of discrimination was economically ineffective, you would see the market itself slowly adjusting towards a more efficient equilibrium, even without explicit laws.

Discrimination is not rooted in economic efficiency so I don’t follow the argument that market forces would correct it.

"Discrimination is not rooted in economic efficiency"

I don't think we know this, it is more of a fervent wish.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#35

Post by seneca »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #31
seneca wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you show me a lower paying girl job instead of a higher paying boy job, and I apply for and get the girl job, how is the company tricking me into applying for the lower paying job based on my gender not a problem to you? How as I not harmed by having a better opportunity hidden from me based on my presumed gender? Not highlighting something to you is not the same as hiding it from you. If you want a job atypical…

The most efficient advertising of jobs is not gender-based, it’s skill-based. Ideally you need to show your ads to candidates with exact match to job description and then some more if the pool is too small. It has nothing to do with gender.

The most efficient advertisement for a job would be to only advertise it to the single candidate who is the best fit for your profile, is looking for a job, and would accept the salary you're offering. Unfortunately intimately detailed profiles like that aren't available, so we target cohorts with the coarse details we do have such as age and gender.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#36

Post by standardUser »

seneca wrote: post #18
standardUser wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think anyone is meaningfully harmed by being algorithmically shown job ads stereotypical of one gender rather than another If you show me a lower paying girl job instead of a higher paying boy job, and I apply for and get the girl job, how is the company tricking me into applying for the lower paying job based on my gender not a problem to you? How was I not harmed by having a better opportunity hidden from…

> If you show me a lower paying girl job instead of a higher paying boy job, and I apply for and get the girl job, how is the company tricking me into applying for the lower paying job based on my gender not a problem to you? How as I not harmed by having a better opportunity hidden from me based on my presumed gender? Not highlighting something to you is not the same as hiding it from you. If you want a job atypical…

You seem to be suggesting that companies should be allowed to trick us so long as there is some conceivable amount of work we can do individually to uncover the trick. But because society exists for people and not companies, most of us prefer laws that stop companies from tricking us in the first place.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#37

Post by [deleted] »

rvnx wrote: post #15
HappyPanacea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is gained from allowing such bias?

Situation: Men are clicking on job of mechanics, more than women. Consequence: men are now more likely shown mechanics job. What is gained: more accurate content, more interesting content, more engagement. As a result: men are more likely to be shown jobs interesting for men, and women are more likely to be shown jobs interesting for women. Which means: Increased chances to find a matching job, and to save time doing…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#38

Post by fastball »

troupo wrote: post #27
rvnx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Situation: Men are clicking on job of mechanics, more than women. Consequence: men are now more likely shown mechanics job. What is gained: more accurate content, more interesting content, more engagement. As a result: men are more likely to be shown jobs interesting for men, and women are more likely to be shown jobs interesting for women. Which means: Increased chances to find a matching job, and to save time doing…

Nope. What you eventually get is women not getting a variety of jobs they could apply to and a death of men in professions that actually need more men (e.g. nurses, teachers etc.) We already been through this. It's not ancient history

Yeahhhhhh, those jobs don't have those ratios due to facebook ads.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#39

Post by seneca »

standardUser wrote: post #36
seneca wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you show me a lower paying girl job instead of a higher paying boy job, and I apply for and get the girl job, how is the company tricking me into applying for the lower paying job based on my gender not a problem to you? How as I not harmed by having a better opportunity hidden from me based on my presumed gender? Not highlighting something to you is not the same as hiding it from you. If you want a job atypical…

You seem to be suggesting that companies should be allowed to trick us so long as there is some conceivable amount of work we can do individually to uncover the trick. But because society exists for people and not companies, most of us prefer laws that stop companies from tricking us in the first place.

Advertising or not advertising jobs to people is not "tricking" them. This is a childish argument.
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