Are those algorithms actually doing the right thing? Most of mechanics are men, same for pre-school teachers are women...these are facts not discrimination or bias.
Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body
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Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body
#22> The Netherlands Institute for Human Rights said in a February 18 decision that Facebook’s algorithm reinforced gender stereotypes by mainly showing “typically female professions” to female Facebook users in the Netherlands and that Meta (META), the social platform’s owner, should have monitored and adjusted its algorithm to prevent that. > For example, ads for mechanic positions were predominantly shown to men, whi…
What is gained from allowing such bias?
What's to be gained by making it illegal under French law?
Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body
#23Are these ads in the sense of unsolicited adverts, or is this some kind of job search engine where people are actively asking Facebook to find a job for them?
Why does that distinction matter?
If Facebook have actively hidden job opportunities from someone who is actively searching for employment, that seems like clear and harmful discrimination. If they have just shown targeted ads to someone, possibly mixed into the general adstream, then that seems like a nothingburger.
Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are the anti-discrimination laws based on anything else than feelings of their proponents with regard to what is wrong and what is right? If this sort of discrimination was economically ineffective, you would see the market itself slowly adjusting towards a more efficient equilibrium, even without explicit laws.
Discrimination is not rooted in economic efficiency so I don’t follow the argument that market forces would correct it.
> Discrimination is not rooted in economic efficiency so I don’t follow the argument that market forces would correct it.
It absolutely is in this case. The whole reason to target ads is to make the people who receive them more likely to engage with them. For instance, including men, elderly people, and children in the target demographic for a preschool teacher job advertisement would make that advertisement significantly less efficient, which is why it's not done.
Forcing companies to disallow targeting of ads because some people are offended by the population's job preferences is absurd.
Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body
#25> The Netherlands Institute for Human Rights said in a February 18 decision that Facebook’s algorithm reinforced gender stereotypes by mainly showing “typically female professions” to female Facebook users in the Netherlands and that Meta (META), the social platform’s owner, should have monitored and adjusted its algorithm to prevent that. > For example, ads for mechanic positions were predominantly shown to men, whi…
Can you explain why you think this?
Not op, but if I was paying for ads on a platform, I want to make the best use of my money, and target users that may more likely react positively. If this means that ads looking for mechanics are more likely to be seen by men, so be it, why should I show them to somebody not interested ?
Unless somebody says explicitly "no women", there is no discrimination in my opinion.
Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body
#26Are those algorithms actually doing the right thing? Most of mechanics are men, same for pre-school teachers are women...these are facts not discrimination or bias.
I mean, "right" is a social construct. It is likely more effective ad targeting, but European law outlaws this despite that, because they believe it is better social policy, decided through the democratic process.
Like, if it was a bad idea to do, there'd be less reason to outlaw it, right? Since there'd be no incentive for companies like Facebook to do it anyways.
Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is gained from allowing such bias?
Situation: Men are clicking on job of mechanics, more than women. Consequence: men are now more likely shown mechanics job. What is gained: more accurate content, more interesting content, more engagement. As a result: men are more likely to be shown jobs interesting for men, and women are more likely to be shown jobs interesting for women. Which means: Increased chances to find a matching job, and to save time doing…
Nope. What you eventually get is women not getting a variety of jobs they could apply to and a death of men in professions that actually need more men (e.g. nurses, teachers etc.)
We already been through this. It's not ancient history
Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body
#28Isn't Europe where headshots are a mandatory part of résumés?
I'm sure that Officially Doesn't contribute to discrimination.
Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is gained from allowing such bias?
What's to be gained by making it illegal under French law?
Advertising will simultaneously become a lot more expensive and less effective. The ability of job seekers to find jobs they're willing to apply to will go down.
Are those not goals of yours?
Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
The algorithm is responding to people's revealed preferences in what job ads they want to see
All discrimination can be described as "revealed preference". A very convenient way of ignoring systemic harm.
The onus needs to be on convincingly demonstrating the alleged systemic harm. Until then, "revealed preference" seems more appropriate.