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Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

cnn.com

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Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#11

Post by standardUser »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #3

> The Netherlands Institute for Human Rights said in a February 18 decision that Facebook’s algorithm reinforced gender stereotypes by mainly showing “typically female professions” to female Facebook users in the Netherlands and that Meta (META), the social platform’s owner, should have monitored and adjusted its algorithm to prevent that. > For example, ads for mechanic positions were predominantly shown to men, whi…

> I don't think anyone is meaningfully harmed by being algorithmically shown job ads stereotypical of one gender rather than another

If you show me a lower paying girl job instead of a higher paying boy job, and I apply for and get the girl job, how is the company tricking me into applying for the lower paying job based on my gender not a problem to you? How was I not harmed by having a better opportunity hidden from me based on my presumed gender?

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#12

Post by cm2012 »

paperhatwriter wrote: post #4
JuniperMesos wrote: post #3

> The Netherlands Institute for Human Rights said in a February 18 decision that Facebook’s algorithm reinforced gender stereotypes by mainly showing “typically female professions” to female Facebook users in the Netherlands and that Meta (META), the social platform’s owner, should have monitored and adjusted its algorithm to prevent that. > For example, ads for mechanic positions were predominantly shown to men, whi…

Can you explain why you think this?

The algorithm is responding to people's revealed preferences in what job ads they want to see

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#13

Post by vlovich123 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #8
onraglanroad wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I don't really care what you think or agree with and I'm quite happy to see Meta reprimanded. Since all you offered were your feelings, there isn't anything of substance to follow up on beyond that.

Are the anti-discrimination laws based on anything else than feelings of their proponents with regard to what is wrong and what is right? If this sort of discrimination was economically ineffective, you would see the market itself slowly adjusting towards a more efficient equilibrium, even without explicit laws.

Discrimination is not rooted in economic efficiency so I don’t follow the argument that market forces would correct it.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#14

Post by standardUser »

inglor_cz wrote: post #8
onraglanroad wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I don't really care what you think or agree with and I'm quite happy to see Meta reprimanded. Since all you offered were your feelings, there isn't anything of substance to follow up on beyond that.

Are the anti-discrimination laws based on anything else than feelings of their proponents with regard to what is wrong and what is right? If this sort of discrimination was economically ineffective, you would see the market itself slowly adjusting towards a more efficient equilibrium, even without explicit laws.

Anti-discrimination laws exist because of the exceptionally well-documented tendency of people in positions of power to judge people based on their gender, sexuality, creed or the color of their skin.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#15

Post by rvnx »

HappyPanacea wrote: post #9
JuniperMesos wrote: post #3

> The Netherlands Institute for Human Rights said in a February 18 decision that Facebook’s algorithm reinforced gender stereotypes by mainly showing “typically female professions” to female Facebook users in the Netherlands and that Meta (META), the social platform’s owner, should have monitored and adjusted its algorithm to prevent that. > For example, ads for mechanic positions were predominantly shown to men, whi…

What is gained from allowing such bias?

Situation: Men are clicking on job of mechanics, more than women.

Consequence: men are now more likely shown mechanics job.

What is gained: more accurate content, more interesting content, more engagement.

As a result: men are more likely to be shown jobs interesting for men, and women are more likely to be shown jobs interesting for women.

Which means: Increased chances to find a matching job, and to save time doing so.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#16

Post by onraglanroad »

inglor_cz wrote: post #8
onraglanroad wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I don't really care what you think or agree with and I'm quite happy to see Meta reprimanded. Since all you offered were your feelings, there isn't anything of substance to follow up on beyond that.

Are the anti-discrimination laws based on anything else than feelings of their proponents with regard to what is wrong and what is right? If this sort of discrimination was economically ineffective, you would see the market itself slowly adjusting towards a more efficient equilibrium, even without explicit laws.

They're based on the notion that gender discrimination is outdated. It's certainly a particular ideology but I think it's a worthwhile one.

I don't judge things by economic effectiveness; slavery was economically effective at one time but it was still wrong.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#17

Post by personomas »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #3

> The Netherlands Institute for Human Rights said in a February 18 decision that Facebook’s algorithm reinforced gender stereotypes by mainly showing “typically female professions” to female Facebook users in the Netherlands and that Meta (META), the social platform’s owner, should have monitored and adjusted its algorithm to prevent that. > For example, ads for mechanic positions were predominantly shown to men, whi…

Totally agree. EU and Europe is going insane with crazy ass laws to punish american companies and regulate everything to death, while they allow their states get away with becoming totalitarian. #unreal

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#18

Post by seneca »

standardUser wrote: post #11
JuniperMesos wrote: post #3

> The Netherlands Institute for Human Rights said in a February 18 decision that Facebook’s algorithm reinforced gender stereotypes by mainly showing “typically female professions” to female Facebook users in the Netherlands and that Meta (META), the social platform’s owner, should have monitored and adjusted its algorithm to prevent that. > For example, ads for mechanic positions were predominantly shown to men, whi…

> I don't think anyone is meaningfully harmed by being algorithmically shown job ads stereotypical of one gender rather than another If you show me a lower paying girl job instead of a higher paying boy job, and I apply for and get the girl job, how is the company tricking me into applying for the lower paying job based on my gender not a problem to you? How was I not harmed by having a better opportunity hidden from…

> If you show me a lower paying girl job instead of a higher paying boy job, and I apply for and get the girl job, how is the company tricking me into applying for the lower paying job based on my gender not a problem to you? How as I not harmed by having a better opportunity hidden from me based on my presumed gender?

Not highlighting something to you is not the same as hiding it from you. If you want a job atypical of your demographic, you have the ability to look it up and apply for it. The fact that you might not do that does not justify forcing people to do dramatically less efficient advertising by knowingly including cohorts unlikely to engage with what they're offering.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#19

Post by hydrogen7800 »

cm2012 wrote: post #12
paperhatwriter wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you think this?

The algorithm is responding to people's revealed preferences in what job ads they want to see

All discrimination can be described as "revealed preference". A very convenient way of ignoring systemic harm.

Re: Facebook enables gender discrimination in job ads: European human rights body

#20

Post by drnick1 »

HappyPanacea wrote: post #9
JuniperMesos wrote: post #3

> The Netherlands Institute for Human Rights said in a February 18 decision that Facebook’s algorithm reinforced gender stereotypes by mainly showing “typically female professions” to female Facebook users in the Netherlands and that Meta (META), the social platform’s owner, should have monitored and adjusted its algorithm to prevent that. > For example, ads for mechanic positions were predominantly shown to men, whi…

What is gained from allowing such bias?

Ads are built the way they are because they are more effective. This presumably means women would rather be grade school teachers than car mechanics.

Second, some "institute" shouldn't be telling a company or anyone really what it can or can't show on its website. The Internet should remain a free place. If you don't like Facebook, don't use it.

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