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Marko – A declarative, HTML‑based language

markojs.com

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Re: Marko – A declarative, HTML‑based language

#21

Post by cyanydeez »

whatshisface wrote: post #6
cyanydeez wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't blame Marko for this type of abomination. This is basically fancy react JSX. ITS just bizzare people want to parse JavaScript at the same instance they're parsing html. Also, LLMs are going to destroy any new framework. Someone's gonna need to figure out how to integrate these things into new tools. LLMs suck but it'll be much worse if they freeze innovations cause they're too expensive to chase the new hotness…

LLMs can make use of documentation and example code.

Yes. I understand second order context pollution.

Re: Marko – A declarative, HTML‑based language

#22

Post by sorrythanks »

hyperhello wrote: post #7

The problem when taking several languages and mixing them together this way is that the result is supposed to have brevity, but it’s actually unreadable. You need slash to mean something grammatical, colon has to say something, you can speak “open brace” in a way that anticipates; @ means “at”. This code looks more like a compression scheme.

almost all code looks like nonsense when you're unfamiliar with it

Re: Marko – A declarative, HTML‑based language

#23

Post by Lerc »

shevy-java wrote: post #2

Today is ${new Date().toDateString()} Random number: ${Math.floor(Math.random() * 100)} Sorry, I don't like it. I already disliked that immensely in PHP. Not going back to that spaghetti mesh-up. The intro is also incorrect in my opinion. It writes a "HTML-based language", but this is more a hybrid of HTML and JavaScript. Why is JavaScript not mentioned in the intro?

Is there any significant difference between that and

    element.innerHTML=`
      
Today is ${new Date().toDateString()}

      
Random number: ${Math.floor(Math.random() * 100)}

    `
(ideally .setHTML() when it's available)

At that point I think I'd have a skeleton html file that fetches a JS that does it all. I'd take JS with embedded HTML over HTML with embedded JS.

Re: Marko – A declarative, HTML‑based language

#24

Post by sorrythanks »

promiseofbeans wrote: post #14

This is actually quite cool - JS inside HTML, rather than the more React-y HTML inside JS. As I understand it, Ryan Carniato was a major part of this project, and later went on to lead SolidJS, which goes back to the React style HTML in JS. Has he spoken at all about why he went back to that templating style?

Yes. Mostly because:

• JSX is well understood by a lot of developers • support is already built in to text editors • it is understood by typescript

Re: Marko – A declarative, HTML‑based language

#25

Post by sorrythanks »

nine_k wrote: post #20
ghurtado wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either solution sounds more verbose than the example and require writing code in at least one other source file

But that separation is sometimes the point. A designer tweaking the looks has no chance to break the computation logic, and an engineer tweaking the computation part won't disrupt the design by mistake. Terseness is good for code golf [1]. I disliked CoffeeScript after writing it for some time: nearly any typo can result in another syntactically correct program which, of course, does not what you wanted the original…

Unless the designer removes the id, or the engineer introduces new output that is not styled.

Re: Marko – A declarative, HTML‑based language

#26

Post by marcelr »

shevy-java wrote: post #2

Today is ${new Date().toDateString()} Random number: ${Math.floor(Math.random() * 100)} Sorry, I don't like it. I already disliked that immensely in PHP. Not going back to that spaghetti mesh-up. The intro is also incorrect in my opinion. It writes a "HTML-based language", but this is more a hybrid of HTML and JavaScript. Why is JavaScript not mentioned in the intro?

this comment really proves that people do not consider the information presented to them

marko is not comparable to php

it is much closer to svelte

i used to sympathize with people complaining about js-fatigue, but at some point its a skill issue

Re: Marko – A declarative, HTML‑based language

#27

Post by croes »

whatshisface wrote: post #6
cyanydeez wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't blame Marko for this type of abomination. This is basically fancy react JSX. ITS just bizzare people want to parse JavaScript at the same instance they're parsing html. Also, LLMs are going to destroy any new framework. Someone's gonna need to figure out how to integrate these things into new tools. LLMs suck but it'll be much worse if they freeze innovations cause they're too expensive to chase the new hotness…

LLMs can make use of documentation and example code.

But because of LLMs there will be less example code

Re: Marko – A declarative, HTML‑based language

#28

Post by jamal-kumar »

Kiro wrote: post #5
cyanydeez wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't blame Marko for this type of abomination. This is basically fancy react JSX. ITS just bizzare people want to parse JavaScript at the same instance they're parsing html. Also, LLMs are going to destroy any new framework. Someone's gonna need to figure out how to integrate these things into new tools. LLMs suck but it'll be much worse if they freeze innovations cause they're too expensive to chase the new hotness…

You two are complaining about different things. Note how the parent mentioned PHP as the reference.

I think the grand takeaway is that people like to complain

Re: Marko – A declarative, HTML‑based language

#29

Post by ethmarks »

ghurtado wrote: post #12
ethmarks wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'd either just put the content in an ID-ed span and have a script to replace the content. Another, perhaps better, way is to use Alpine.JS which excels at this kind of stuff.

Either solution sounds more verbose than the example and require writing code in at least one other source file

But they're both framework-agnostic.

This snippet works with any framework and any build step.

  
  
    
Today is 

    
Random number:
I'll concede that Alpine.js is harder to understand and more verbose than Marko's syntax, but in order to use Marko you have to commit to the Marko framework. If you're willing to choose a framework solely for its JS-in-HTML capabilities, there are much better choices (like SvelteKit that handles JS-in-HTML wonderfully).

Re: Marko – A declarative, HTML‑based language

#30

Post by zupa-hu »

hyperhello wrote: post #7

The problem when taking several languages and mixing them together this way is that the result is supposed to have brevity, but it’s actually unreadable. You need slash to mean something grammatical, colon has to say something, you can speak “open brace” in a way that anticipates; @ means “at”. This code looks more like a compression scheme.

Isn't syntax pretty much just compression? We could write down the AST itself in some generic notation but that would be orders of magnitudes larger, so invent clever tricks to compress it, which we call syntax.

Edit: typo

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