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Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

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Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#391

Post by tharne »

staplers wrote: post #101
gwd wrote: post #75

> From that point on, Steve would go on to spend lavishly on things that improved the experience, and he would reject—often brutally—any idea that diluted or harmed the experience. ...I’ll go out on a limb and say that uninvited advertising is not normally equated with a better customer experience. YES!!! SOO much of the Apple user experience has degraded due to this. I can't listen to my own music that I bought on t…

I very much doubt the execs understand how much they're damaging the brand for that little bit of extra revenue. Our entire societal system is based on increasing revenue (due to inflation). Until we measure, define, and value experience in nominal terms through data, most leaders won't care because it will remain an estimate against hard data.

> I very much doubt the execs understand how much they're damaging the brand for that little bit of extra revenue.

I disagree. They know exactly what they're doing. Executives get paid and promoted based on quarterly profitability, not long-term vision or a sustainable business model. By the time the damage from what they've done is apparent and felt, the execs responsible will have long since retired to a beach somewhere in the tropics, or taken a higher paying role at another company where they'll start the process anew.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#392

Post by toast0 »

mulmen wrote: post #200
com2kid wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call it the first mover disadvantage! (I was there first hand to witness it again and again!) Bill Gates is terrifyingly smart. He sees trends decades ahead. But knowing something is coming (smart TVs) does you no good without timing. You build a first gen product, accrue mountains of legacy tech debt in the process (being first is hard! There is no one else to learn lessons from!) and then a competitor comes along…

So what’s the lesson for future business leaders? Someone has to be first. What can a first mover do to get to that second generation product?

> So what’s the lesson for future business leaders? Someone has to be first.

Let it be someone else. Maybe spinoff promising new ideas where you can't follow others. If you can find ideas to be second on, look at old product annpuncements from companies that tend to be too early and shut down products that don't have engagement. Microsoft and Yahoo are good ones.

Or, do the new idea, patent the hell out of it, let it die, and when the idea comes around again, get some licensing revenue.

The problem with Microsoft being a first mover is they're too big. A small line of business is a problem for most big companies. It acrues too little customer oriented development to grow, because the numbers don't justify investment; but it acrues all the corporate cruft development and the product becomes hard to pivot under the weight of three rebrands.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#393

Post by kakacik »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #41
m463 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "steve jobs wouldn't" and "apple dying" ... shrill I think these are fans of apple who have lost something. Personally I think steve jobs was a good integrator - he got people together. Sometimes the people were apple customers, sometimes music industry computers, etc If there was controversy, he stepped in and lead - and stepped into the spotlight and explained. I don't see the same sort of leadership nowadays. Co…

I think what Steve added to Apple more than anything was being the biggest asshole in the room who was willing to point at a fellow high-up person and tell them their idea sucked ass, and you may be surprised to read what comes next, I think that's critical to a good product line. There are numerous problems caused by having too many stakeholders, too many cooks in the kitchen if you will, steering your given ship, a…

Well he was a textbook high performing sociopath, if that's a coined medical term. Very low emotional EQ, very high IQ, and the ability to rationally turn some part of EQ on if motivation is high enough... but nothing of that comes naturally and in stressful situations its elephant in the porcelain shop.

His biggest regrets before dying is how he treated his own family when looking back - again a textbook of what I write above.

Some people have immediate kneejerk reaction to the part with "sociopath" but I don't look at it as some sort of insult, rather just description of certain quality or lack of it of given person. No need to dance around the fact with many words, it is (was) what it is. If he knew better he would do it, nothing one can choose easily. And there would be some negative impact on his professional life, no doubt (some positive too but if you look at ultra rich guys not only in tech, they are +- the same stuff, it seems this is really prerequisite to rise meteorically, nice guys normally don't make it that far).

musk is similar albeit another unique mix of above. Bezos too. And so on and on.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#394

Post by cindyllm »

kakacik wrote: post #393
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what Steve added to Apple more than anything was being the biggest asshole in the room who was willing to point at a fellow high-up person and tell them their idea sucked ass, and you may be surprised to read what comes next, I think that's critical to a good product line. There are numerous problems caused by having too many stakeholders, too many cooks in the kitchen if you will, steering your given ship, a…

Well he was a textbook high performing sociopath, if that's a coined medical term. Very low emotional EQ, very high IQ, and the ability to rationally turn some part of EQ on if motivation is high enough... but nothing of that comes naturally and in stressful situations its elephant in the porcelain shop. His biggest regrets before dying is how he treated his own family when looking back - again a textbook of what I w…

[dead]

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#395

Post by rasz »

tempodox wrote: post #281
gwd wrote: post #75

> From that point on, Steve would go on to spend lavishly on things that improved the experience, and he would reject—often brutally—any idea that diluted or harmed the experience. ...I’ll go out on a limb and say that uninvited advertising is not normally equated with a better customer experience. YES!!! SOO much of the Apple user experience has degraded due to this. I can't listen to my own music that I bought on t…

Once upon a time, Apple used to be different. Now they’re just another megacorp that abuses you with enshittification, like they all do.

Different indeed, like that time Jobs pushed U2 album into every iphone.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#397

Post by mlmonkey »

> Why would Apple do such a thing?

Because Steve is not around to rip these MBA-types a new asshole for even mentioning such crap.

Tim is not a visionary leader. He is a great manager who can manage logistics like nobody else and deliver the finished product.

But Steve was the visionary leader: he laid out the plan of where they were going, sold his troops on the big picture and Tim helped get the troops there.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#398

Post by dangus »

strictnein wrote: post #95
gwd wrote: post #75

> From that point on, Steve would go on to spend lavishly on things that improved the experience, and he would reject—often brutally—any idea that diluted or harmed the experience. ...I’ll go out on a limb and say that uninvited advertising is not normally equated with a better customer experience. YES!!! SOO much of the Apple user experience has degraded due to this. I can't listen to my own music that I bought on t…

This is how Amazon is too with the movies and tv shows you bought. There's no way to search your owned library anymore. You just have to page through it to find what you want. And your library is hidden away behind a tiny little unlabeled icon in the upper right corner. And, to make matters worse, you have things like the Charlie Brown Halloween Special, which Apple now owns the rights to. You cannot in any way searc…

This analogy to Amazon is why I submit the idea that customers don’t care and expect advertising.

Look up the brand perception of Amazon. It’s one of the highest in the business including high trust scores. High trust scores, for a company that sells counterfeit products! Perception is not reality.

Your average consumer (I.e., complete dumbass) barely recognizes advertisements and often reports enjoying them when they do recognize them. I can’t count how many people tell me that they see products advertised to them in Instagram that are exactly what they wanted/like.

When Steve Jobs ran Apple it was a niche premium computer company who had customers with above average incomes and education levels. It was different time. He died more than 10 years ago.

That’s not exactly what Apple is today. iPhones are used by over half of all Americans. You can’t really buy a decent computer that’s cheaper or a better value proposition than the previous generation MacBook Air $550 Walmart special.

As a side note, I would note that Apple Maps already has “ads,” because it has a Yelp integration. I think this whole thing is a part of removing that and bringing the same functionality in-house.

I think you’d be insane not to monetize Maps with Apple being the size that it is. It costs a huge amount of money to operate as a free service, and your median customer expects ads to be there.

If you want that niche, discerning customer experience, buy a Framework or System76: Linux has the same marketshare now that Apple had when Jobs returned to Apple.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#399

Post by ryandrake »

kccqzy wrote: post #351
gwd wrote: post #75

> From that point on, Steve would go on to spend lavishly on things that improved the experience, and he would reject—often brutally—any idea that diluted or harmed the experience. ...I’ll go out on a limb and say that uninvited advertising is not normally equated with a better customer experience. YES!!! SOO much of the Apple user experience has degraded due to this. I can't listen to my own music that I bought on t…

I haven't seen ads on the App Store for a long time. To update my apps I just long press the App Store icon and tap Updates. It leads you directly to the updates without going to the homepage.

I just opened up App Store and the first screen is a full screen ad for Roblox. Then you scroll down and it’s 4 “now trending” ads, then below that another full screen as. The entire “Today” tab is a scroll full of ads.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#400

Post by dbtc »

layer8 wrote: post #324
etothet wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cheaper Mac Mini? $599 for the entry level is a pretty great deal (assuming you view macOS and the ecosystem as a feature and not a bug). Genuine question: is there a comparable Windows machine in a mini desktop form factor at a similar or lower price?

If you just need a desktop for random browsing and run-off-the-mill office work, there are $250-300 mini PCs you can get for that no problem.

Anything that beats a refurb m1 mac mini for $250?
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