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Doo: A Simple, Fast Programming Language Built on Rust and LLVM

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Re: Doo: A Simple, Fast Programming Language Built on Rust and LLVM

#11

Post by nynrathod »

Panzerschrek wrote: post #9
nynrathod wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying safe will be too early, but design philosophy is no compromise with security and speed with easy syntax. It passed with 550+ test cases including unit test, memory stress, integration, circular dep, regresssion, valgrind memory leak, fuzz testing, also i added conservative limits max depth for recursion and data length for stability. Find here https://github.com/nynrathod/doolang/blob/main/src/limits.rs Doolan…

When I say safety I mean inability of the programmer to trigger UB using normal language features, like it's impossible in Rust and several other (less known) languages. Does Doo support it? Or I just can shoot the leg and compiler lets me do this? About references: am I correct, that any value is reference-counted and one can pass it to a function and mutate it (the original, not a copy).

But your points make sense, i should learn those UB works and will check how its behaving

Re: Doo: A Simple, Fast Programming Language Built on Rust and LLVM

#12

Post by Panzerschrek »

nynrathod wrote: post #10
Panzerschrek wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I say safety I mean inability of the programmer to trigger UB using normal language features, like it's impossible in Rust and several other (less known) languages. Does Doo support it? Or I just can shoot the leg and compiler lets me do this? About references: am I correct, that any value is reference-counted and one can pass it to a function and mutate it (the original, not a copy).

Doolang aims for memory safety with static typing and automatic reference counting, so you won't see classic C/C++ bugs. But it does not claim Rust's level of safety there’s no formal guarantee that safe code can't cause undefined behavior. It's quite safe in practice, just not as strict as Rust. For complex types (strings, arrays, maps), values are reference-counted and passed by reference. If you pass such a value…

So, what if I want to pass a value of a primitive type by-reference? How the equivalent code for the following C++ example looks like?

  void Foo( int& x )
  {
      x= 123;
  }
  
  void Bar()
  {
      int x= 0;
      Foo(x);
  }

Re: Doo: A Simple, Fast Programming Language Built on Rust and LLVM

#13

Post by nynrathod »

Panzerschrek wrote: post #12
nynrathod wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doolang aims for memory safety with static typing and automatic reference counting, so you won't see classic C/C++ bugs. But it does not claim Rust's level of safety there’s no formal guarantee that safe code can't cause undefined behavior. It's quite safe in practice, just not as strict as Rust. For complex types (strings, arrays, maps), values are reference-counted and passed by reference. If you pass such a value…

So, what if I want to pass a value of a primitive type by-reference? How the equivalent code for the following C++ example looks like? void Foo( int& x ) { x= 123; } void Bar() { int x= 0; Foo(x); }

Doolang currently does not allow you to mutate a primitive variable from another function.

Only support this as of now

fn Foo(x: Int) { x = 123; // Only modifies Foo's local copy print("inside Foo", x); // Print 123 } fn main() { let x: Int = 0; Foo(x); // x is still 0 here after Foo returns print("out x", x); // Print 0 }

Re: Doo: A Simple, Fast Programming Language Built on Rust and LLVM

#14

Post by paulf38 »

nynrathod wrote: post #8
Panzerschrek wrote: post #7

Is it safe? Does it require using traits everywhere, like Rust does? Does it have proper references (C++ style)?

Saying safe will be too early, but design philosophy is no compromise with security and speed with easy syntax. It passed with 550+ test cases including unit test, memory stress, integration, circular dep, regresssion, valgrind memory leak, fuzz testing, also i added conservative limits max depth for recursion and data length for stability. Find here https://github.com/nynrathod/doolang/blob/main/src/limits.rs Doolan…

Nooooo! "valgrind memory leak". Aaargh. Valgrind (memcheck) is not just a leak detection tool. Leak detection is so unimportant that it isn't even turned on by default.

Re: Doo: A Simple, Fast Programming Language Built on Rust and LLVM

#15

Post by nynrathod »

paulf38 wrote: post #14
nynrathod wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying safe will be too early, but design philosophy is no compromise with security and speed with easy syntax. It passed with 550+ test cases including unit test, memory stress, integration, circular dep, regresssion, valgrind memory leak, fuzz testing, also i added conservative limits max depth for recursion and data length for stability. Find here https://github.com/nynrathod/doolang/blob/main/src/limits.rs Doolan…

Nooooo! "valgrind memory leak". Aaargh. Valgrind (memcheck) is not just a leak detection tool. Leak detection is so unimportant that it isn't even turned on by default.

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t actually know all the details about how Valgrind works under the hood just that it does memory checking. I'll definitely read up more on it. If you have any good resources or tips, I'd appreciate your suggestions!

Re: Doo: A Simple, Fast Programming Language Built on Rust and LLVM

#17

Post by cdata »

Very cool. I'm always on the lookout for languages - especially beginner-friendly ones - that are good candidates for building Wasm Components (my use case is a fantasy console with Wasm game cartridges).

Have you given any thought to supporting Wasm Components as a build target?

Re: Doo: A Simple, Fast Programming Language Built on Rust and LLVM

#18

Post by preommr »

Great start!

Just want to say, you did all the right things: Simple instructions, to the point and, and I can't stress this enough - examples. Like 9/10 when someone shares their language, they have little to no examples and it's the first thing people ask for.

I do think you could probably have a few more examples that are like the calculator and less of what's basically a one liner.

On the language: I like what's there so far. It's clean minimalist, and familiar.

The problem is that there's not really a USP that I can see. I get the rust but with reference counting, but I don't think that's even close to enough. There has to be a really really good reason for people to try and use a new programming language. And I don't really see the overall vision beyond a small hobby project (which is fine if that's what you were aiming for)

> Missing a killer feature?

Yes, very much so.

Re: Doo: A Simple, Fast Programming Language Built on Rust and LLVM

#19

Post by pavelai »

nynrathod wrote: post #6
pavelai wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a bit of a additional value here. It's very good as a learning project, like "how to make you own programming language and compile it into executable". Due to the simplicity and minimalism, it could be very useful.

Hi, Yeah make sense, but I don't have any buzzing goal right now, doolang is not any dsl, just to ensure high level syntax for developer writing backend servers apis. And not started as learning project. Will move forward as per feedback of community and requirement but not such specific target im aiming. so again simple concept is keep it simple to write with speed and security

I understand your intensions, but for compiled languages usually it takes years to be accepted by developers as a mature language. It is so even for Go and Rust. Both of them has giants behind them and, again, it took many years for them. As a solo developer you could make it more specific to become popular in some particular field and then to scale it. If the learning is too simple for you, then you can choose anything else. But if you wanna grow, turn it into product. If you want it to be more popular as a server side programming language you can add some language constructions to make it easy to write routers, parse requests data and react on it maybe with pattern matching. Hope this would help you to find your way to make it bigger. Good luck

Re: Doo: A Simple, Fast Programming Language Built on Rust and LLVM

#20

Post by nynrathod »

preommr wrote: post #18

Great start! Just want to say, you did all the right things: Simple instructions, to the point and, and I can't stress this enough - examples. Like 9/10 when someone shares their language, they have little to no examples and it's the first thing people ask for. I do think you could probably have a few more examples that are like the calculator and less of what's basically a one liner. On the language: I like what's t…

Thanks for valuable feedback. Yeah definitely will add more examples projects.

And really make sense your point to have usp or any unique or good feature doolang should have. As this is just starting point of doolang, and honestly i never started this as hobby project I want this to be mature over years not to replace any languge but to have simplicity for writing servers and apis. after few months I will definitely integrate this with my own production note taking app once i improve this language.

Reference counting i Introduce for auto memroy mgmt only, as rust ownership and borrow method will be extreme complex to implement as solo dev i feel.

But now im clear now language should have any special feature or target which is lacking, idk what to find for this, but it will be valuable if you can suggest, im also thinking to have new post to ask feedback from community what they want in such language. Any suggestion?

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