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James Watson has died

nytimes.com

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Re: James Watson has died

#91

Post by JKCalhoun »

terminalshort wrote: post #62
JKCalhoun wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow, good genes! Said with irony? I mean, the guy was into eugenics—thought some races are smarter than others.

> the guy was into eugenics So are you (probably). Do you think incest should be legalized? > thought some races are smarter than others What other conclusion can you reasonably come to based on the available data?

A biologist can correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand "race" in humans to be little different than, say, hair-color. Perhaps there's data showing that brunettes are smarter than blondes?

EDIT: Never mind, user krapp's comment is what I was reaching for, "Race isn't biological, it's a social and political construct."

Re: James Watson has died

#93

Post by JKCalhoun »

flkiwi wrote: post #69
JKCalhoun wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow, good genes! Said with irony? I mean, the guy was into eugenics—thought some races are smarter than others.

I mean, he lived to 97. Given what he's known for, it made me chuckle. Anyway, I thought it was Crick who was into eugenics. If it was both of them, I'm afraid I shall have to amend my opinion of both of them from "disturbingly troubling" to "unredeemable so let's just get them out of the textbooks thanks" right away.

By all means they should remain in textbooks. We have a lot of unredeemable people in history that we should not ignore.

If anything it's probably a healthy reminder that even "smart" people can have blinders on?

Re: James Watson has died

#94

Post by LarsDu88 »

aerostable_slug wrote: post #89
LarsDu88 wrote: post #71

Years ago I had the pleasure of sitting in on one of his talks on longevity. Other than the casual racism and sexism (Watson is the only person in my entire life I've seen say racist things about Irish people), he made a big comment on Linus Pauling's obsession towards the end of his life regarding Vitamin C consumption. The main idea is that primates such as humans and chimps lost the ability to synthesize vitamin C…

> racist things about Irish people It's a trait that some people of Irish descent, like Watson, share. See also: self-deprecating humor Greek, Jewish, Italian, and members of other ethnicities are sometimes known for. The difference is that Watson just didn't care to read the room before letting loose.

It didn't come off as self-deprecating at all, although I see that he had a grandmother from Ireland (unclear if she was ethnically Irish or English)

How could it possibly be self-deprecating if he was specifically shitting on "Irish women"?

Re: James Watson has died

#95

Post by schuyler2d »

saghm wrote: post #52
flkiwi wrote: post #38

[flagged]

I'm not sure what your definition of "nice" is, but mine doesn't include saying most of what's here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Watson#Comments_on_race

on top of that, I personally know several women scientists that had to put up with his misogyny first-hand.

Re: James Watson has died

#96

Post by LarsDu88 »

efilife wrote: post #84
LarsDu88 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watson is one of the most openly racist and sexist public figures I've ever seen in person. Also he devoted the last 15 years of his life obsessed with longevity. Dude took anti-oxidants, tennis, and Vitamin C up the wazoo to keep living longer.

looks like it paid off

Eat goji berries, play tennis, and eat 10x the amount of daily recommended Vitamin C. I will live to be 100

Re: James Watson has died

#97

Post by dekhn »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #91
terminalshort wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the guy was into eugenics So are you (probably). Do you think incest should be legalized? > thought some races are smarter than others What other conclusion can you reasonably come to based on the available data?

A biologist can correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand "race" in humans to be little different than, say, hair-color. Perhaps there's data showing that brunettes are smarter than blondes? EDIT: Never mind, user krapp's comment is what I was reaching for, "Race isn't biological, it's a social and political construct."

It's not completely correct, though- "race" as we currently classify it has a strong correlate to genetic background and self-identified race is often used as a proxy for genetic background.

Re: James Watson has died

#98

Post by moralestapia »

Aurornis wrote: post #85
LarsDu88 wrote: post #71

Years ago I had the pleasure of sitting in on one of his talks on longevity. Other than the casual racism and sexism (Watson is the only person in my entire life I've seen say racist things about Irish people), he made a big comment on Linus Pauling's obsession towards the end of his life regarding Vitamin C consumption. The main idea is that primates such as humans and chimps lost the ability to synthesize vitamin C…

Linus Pauling's obsession with Vitamin C is a famous case of an accomplished scientist getting sidetracked with baseless medical quackery. Even during his lifetime there were clinical trials including by the Mayo Clinic that failed to support his claims, but he rejected them all because he was convinced he was right and they were wrong. Linus Pauling was also famously in favor of eugenics directed at African American…

>an accomplished scientist getting sidetracked with baseless medical quackery

I would still take that over being an unaccomplished nobody getting sidetracked with baseless medical quackery.

Re: James Watson has died

#99

Post by LarsDu88 »

culi wrote: post #58
flkiwi wrote: post #38

[flagged]

Watson was the one who described Franklin as "belligerent, emotional, and unable to interpret her own data" in his book. He also repeatedly referred to her as "Rosy", a name Franklin never used. Wilkins was the one who showed Franklin's Photograph 51 to Watson. This was without Franklin's consent and before her photographs were officially published. Watson and Crick then rushed to publish their findings before Frankl…

One professor that I had said that she met him when he was a bit younger (when he was in his 60s), and every time he would walk into a room, he would immediately pick out the most attractive young women, and ask them to sit directly next to him.

Re: James Watson has died

#100

Post by khazhoux »

culi wrote: post #67
echelon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Franklin and her grad student produced key experimental data that corrected and confirmed the model that Watson and Crick were already hard at work on. Franklin's experimental data wasn't the only key experimental data, but it was pivotal. Franklin could have elucidated the structure of DNA herself, but she was working on other problems. Watson and Crick were head's deep in the problem and were building stick figure…

This is not an honest depiction of the full picture. At the time, scientists already suspected a corkscrew structure but there was disagreement between what that looked like or whether it was double or triple helixed. Franklin's key experiments resulted in the Photograph 51 that almost single-handedly proved the structure. Before Franklin could publish her data, Wilkins—without the consent or knowledge of Franklin—to…

In fact, it was a photograph she took 8 months earlier, and she didn't realize its significance or implication. If useful data is shelved, is it still useful? For Watson, the image corroborated the double-helix theory and caused them to focus exclusively on that (instead of triple or single). The photograph itself did not deliver a DNA model.
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