Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

James Watson has died

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 303 posts

Re: James Watson has died

#51

Post by pazimzadeh »

catigula wrote: post #35
Jun8 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an ignorant take on what really happened. There are many sources online to better understand what happened, you might want to start with the Nature article: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-01313-5 If you want to attack Watson, his comments on race later in life is a better angle.

What comments did he make and what type of fact-based concerns do you have with them?

if you read the article:

"he ignited an uproar by suggesting, in an interview with The Sunday Times in London, that Black people, over all, were not as intelligent as white people. He repeated the assertion in on-camera interviews for a PBS documentary about him, part of the “American Masters” series."

Re: James Watson has died

#53

Post by catigula »

cogman10 wrote: post #49
catigula wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specificially did he say and why did it upset you? I am genuinely curious, I could google it easily enough, but it's actually more interesting why people have a certain impression of things and how strongly they've interrogated the accuracy of that impression.

> He says that he is "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really", and I know that this "hot potato" is going to be difficult to address. His hope is that everyone is equal, but he counters that "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true". He says that…

> To generalize capabilities based on genetics is simply foolish as the pool is far more vast than what you'd find in England, for example.

This seems like a very, very odd statement. The genetic pool of Ashkenazi Jews is fairly small and nobody believes they’re not particularly intelligent.

The genetic pool of a single family of very, very bright people is even smaller still.

Next, we can discuss what percentage of intelligence is heritable. You’re going to be surprised.

Re: James Watson has died

#54

Post by catigula »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #51
catigula wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What comments did he make and what type of fact-based concerns do you have with them?

if you read the article: "he ignited an uproar by suggesting, in an interview with The Sunday Times in London, that Black people, over all, were not as intelligent as white people. He repeated the assertion in on-camera interviews for a PBS documentary about him, part of the “American Masters” series."

That’s actually a correct belief. That’s what the testing says.

Note that I’m not saying the cause, merely that’s simply what the testing indicates and is a statement with a pure basis in fact.

There are different group averages in intelligence measurement and people have many feelings about why that is, but nobody credible disputes the mere existence of those data.

Anyways, that’s not in quotes so doesn’t answer the question.

Re: James Watson has died

#57

Post by inglor_cz »

cogman10 wrote: post #49
catigula wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specificially did he say and why did it upset you? I am genuinely curious, I could google it easily enough, but it's actually more interesting why people have a certain impression of things and how strongly they've interrogated the accuracy of that impression.

> He says that he is "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really", and I know that this "hot potato" is going to be difficult to address. His hope is that everyone is equal, but he counters that "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true". He says that…

"Africa is the most genetically diverse area humanity has"

AFAIK Africa has small pockets of very high diversity, but most Africans belong to the Nigero-Kordofan family which isn't very diverse at all. The groups that contribute to high overall diversity of the continent (Pygmies, the San) are very small, numbering in tens of thousands or so.

Re: James Watson has died

#58

Post by culi »

flkiwi wrote: post #38

[flagged]

Watson was the one who described Franklin as "belligerent, emotional, and unable to interpret her own data" in his book. He also repeatedly referred to her as "Rosy", a name Franklin never used.

Wilkins was the one who showed Franklin's Photograph 51 to Watson. This was without Franklin's consent and before her photographs were officially published. Watson and Crick then rushed to publish their findings before Franklin could

Re: James Watson has died

#59

Post by [deleted] »

inglor_cz wrote: post #50
bossyTeacher wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High on unkindness and plagarizing behaviour perhaps for not crediting Franklin when he should. We definitely need a debate on men who did amazing contributions to science but were terrible human beings

"We definitely need a debate on men..." What should be the outcome or even content of such debate? They existed; they were great and terrible; they are dead. Given the usual inability of mankind to deal with nuance, some will hate them and some will worship them. In general, it can be expected that people who really shift the scientific status quo will score low on agreeableness. It usually means trampling on someone…

[deleted]

Re: James Watson has died

#60

Post by inglor_cz »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #51
catigula wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What comments did he make and what type of fact-based concerns do you have with them?

if you read the article: "he ignited an uproar by suggesting, in an interview with The Sunday Times in London, that Black people, over all, were not as intelligent as white people. He repeated the assertion in on-camera interviews for a PBS documentary about him, part of the “American Masters” series."

Taboos are very culture-specific. I suspect that the above statement would cause approximately zero uproar in China, or the Arabic world.
Post reply on HN