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Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

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Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#101

Post by staplers »

gwd wrote: post #75

> From that point on, Steve would go on to spend lavishly on things that improved the experience, and he would reject—often brutally—any idea that diluted or harmed the experience. ...I’ll go out on a limb and say that uninvited advertising is not normally equated with a better customer experience. YES!!! SOO much of the Apple user experience has degraded due to this. I can't listen to my own music that I bought on t…

  I very much doubt the execs understand how much they're damaging the brand for that little bit of extra revenue.
Our entire societal system is based on increasing revenue (due to inflation). Until we measure, define, and value experience in nominal terms through data, most leaders won't care because it will remain an estimate against hard data.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#102

Post by gdulli »

gwd wrote: post #75

> From that point on, Steve would go on to spend lavishly on things that improved the experience, and he would reject—often brutally—any idea that diluted or harmed the experience. ...I’ll go out on a limb and say that uninvited advertising is not normally equated with a better customer experience. YES!!! SOO much of the Apple user experience has degraded due to this. I can't listen to my own music that I bought on t…

> Modern iPhones don't come with a music player. They come with a music store

> Modern iPhones don't come with an e-book app. They come with a book store

As a Windows person I see these as features, not criticisms. Windows not having good builtin versions of these or other apps is either a cause or effect of there being a robust ecosystem of third-party choices, both open-source and commercial.

My frustration with Apple when I tried it out was that you either use iTunes or there's little other choice. Technically some choice, yes, but because most people are passive and use the Apple stuff by default, there's a smaller community of developers who are motivated to try to compete.

When I see people criticize Notepad in Windows (for example) it feels irrelevant because you're not expected to use Notepad for anything but the most trivial use cases. There are so many other, better options, and the platform has a culture of exploring those options.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#103

Post by bigyabai »

nomel wrote: post #18
daft_pink wrote: post #11

To me the really question is how that impacts my privacy. I’m okay with Ads in their software as long as it doesn’t negatively impact my privacy. It’s obvious that many of google services have huge negative impacts on my privacy, which is why I buy from apple.

I buy from Apple for privacy and the their respecting users and being "classier" by not putting ads in their apps. That is the reason I pay the "Apple tax". I think this is very unfortunate.

It's very likely that the "privacy" advertising is largely a sham too. As Senator Wyden proved, Apple can be compelled by the federal government to conceal spyware in iOS and its supporting systems: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-...

Hardly surprising given how they reneged their stance on in-OS advertising though.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#104

Post by hylaride »

FrankWilhoit wrote: post #9

Jobs's focus on the customer experience was useless because he judged the customer by himself. "Be like me and you will have a good experience" is not clever marketing; it is abuse.

Use an MP3 player from before the iPod existed and then try an iPod classic. Same with smart phones. There is no way you're going to convince most people that what you say is true in any general sense.

Sure, simplification means having to have some opinionated ways of doing things because you're removing options, but there's a very real benefit that can come out of it.

If anything, it makes the current state of Apple that much more sad.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#105

Post by gwd »

vbezhenar wrote: post #93
gwd wrote: post #75

> From that point on, Steve would go on to spend lavishly on things that improved the experience, and he would reject—often brutally—any idea that diluted or harmed the experience. ...I’ll go out on a limb and say that uninvited advertising is not normally equated with a better customer experience. YES!!! SOO much of the Apple user experience has degraded due to this. I can't listen to my own music that I bought on t…

What do you mean "modern"? I'm using iPhones since 4S and I don't think that Music or iBooks workflow changed, it's largely the same. So probably Steve Jobs was OK with that.

Um, no? Apple Music wasn't even a thing in the iPhone 4S timeframe. You used to buy music in the iTunes Store, and play it in the music player app.

It used to be if you clicked the App Store, and you had apps to update, it would take you to the "Update" tab immediately.

Then they changed it to take you to the main page, and you had to click the "Update" tab.

Then they changed the updates to be under your account; so you have to find this little corner thing and scroll down, wading through all the ads for the new apps you haven't installed.

Books always had a store, but your library was primary. You managed it; it had books that you'd bought, not empty placeholders for books you hadn't bought. There was a store, but it was the second tab.

Now the store is the main tab, and your library is the second tab.

And, as I said, they've now started reorganizing my library, adding "empty placeholder" books in. I don't see Enders Game in my library any more; I see the Ender Series, and if I click on that, I see all five titles, the first of which I can actually read (since that's the only one I bought).

If I honestly thought Android would be any different, I might consider jumping ship.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#106

Post by edoceo »

staplers wrote: post #101
gwd wrote: post #75

> From that point on, Steve would go on to spend lavishly on things that improved the experience, and he would reject—often brutally—any idea that diluted or harmed the experience. ...I’ll go out on a limb and say that uninvited advertising is not normally equated with a better customer experience. YES!!! SOO much of the Apple user experience has degraded due to this. I can't listen to my own music that I bought on t…

I very much doubt the execs understand how much they're damaging the brand for that little bit of extra revenue. Our entire societal system is based on increasing revenue (due to inflation). Until we measure, define, and value experience in nominal terms through data, most leaders won't care because it will remain an estimate against hard data.

Consumers need actual choice too. Choosing between ad-infested music and no-music is crap. The option of music, sans PM-bloat doesn't exist.

Sub music with the thing you like.

Freaking heck, I've gotta dismiss ads on my BANKING APP just to deposit a check.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#107

Post by manoDev »

To be fair, ads on a map aren't the same as Windows 11 start menu ads – the former are useful and contextual.

I feel the story being told would be more equivalent to what Microsoft is doing rather than Google.

That said, advertising is like a virus, and every company and product is eventually infected by it. It's too tempting to not monetize your customer's eyeballs once you have enough of them.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#108

Post by oh_my_goodness »

strictnein wrote: post #95
gwd wrote: post #75

> From that point on, Steve would go on to spend lavishly on things that improved the experience, and he would reject—often brutally—any idea that diluted or harmed the experience. ...I’ll go out on a limb and say that uninvited advertising is not normally equated with a better customer experience. YES!!! SOO much of the Apple user experience has degraded due to this. I can't listen to my own music that I bought on t…

This is how Amazon is too with the movies and tv shows you bought. There's no way to search your owned library anymore. You just have to page through it to find what you want. And your library is hidden away behind a tiny little unlabeled icon in the upper right corner. And, to make matters worse, you have things like the Charlie Brown Halloween Special, which Apple now owns the rights to. You cannot in any way searc…

It's true, and it sucks. But at least I didn't pay Amazon $1800 for hardware first.

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#109

Post by ngcazz »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #98
gwd wrote: post #75

> From that point on, Steve would go on to spend lavishly on things that improved the experience, and he would reject—often brutally—any idea that diluted or harmed the experience. ...I’ll go out on a limb and say that uninvited advertising is not normally equated with a better customer experience. YES!!! SOO much of the Apple user experience has degraded due to this. I can't listen to my own music that I bought on t…

[flagged]

Now where'd you cop that?

Re: Apple is crossing a Steve Jobs red line

#110

Post by cyberax »

xp84 wrote: post #64
spankalee wrote: post #45

I don't know... ads in maps is very, very different from ads in the OS. Users buy the OS with the computer, and Apple doesn't incur any extra cost from users using it (maybe cloud-based AI will change this though?), and it doesn't require additional payments. Meanwhile, services like iCloud+ do require payment. Maps is a service, like iCloud, but users have been trained to expect it for free, with basically every oth…

> basically every other maps provider using ads to fund it. > iSearch they will eventually fund it with ads. See, I disagree with your entire premise here. Apple, unlike Google, has a very very profitable hardware business which provides so much to the bottom line that they don't have to operate Apple Maps or Apple Search or Calculator as a self-sustaining business with its own P&L. It's stupid to operate as though t…

> You don't just get to fully enshittify the product and still command the same high prices as you did when you were offering a premium product

"Challenge accepted" - Tim Apple.

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