Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

apnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 453 posts

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#11

Post by delusional »

Telaneo wrote: post #5

It'll be interesting to see what they can cook up at home. Chat Control was pushed in large part by Denmark, and Minister of Justice Peter Hummelgaard is on record saying some pretty disturbing things regarding the right to privacy online.[1] Now for this, they don't need the entire EU to go along, and any laws already on the books might prove ineffective to protect against means that end up achieving similar goals t…

> Denmark's constitution does have a privacy paragraph, but it explicitly mentions telephone and telegraph

That's very much not how danish law works. The specific paragraph says "hvor ingen lov hjemler en særegen undtaglse, alene ske efter en retskendelse." translated as "where no other law grants a special exemption, only happen with a warrant". That is, you can open peoples private mail and enter their private residence, but you have to ask a judge first.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#14

Post by tokai »

Svip wrote: post #10
Telaneo wrote: post #5

It'll be interesting to see what they can cook up at home. Chat Control was pushed in large part by Denmark, and Minister of Justice Peter Hummelgaard is on record saying some pretty disturbing things regarding the right to privacy online.[1] Now for this, they don't need the entire EU to go along, and any laws already on the books might prove ineffective to protect against means that end up achieving similar goals t…

Whether internet is covered by § 72 seems undetermined; as far as I can tell the Supreme Court hasn't made a decision on it; but considering that it considered fake SMS train tickets to be document fraud, even though the law text never explicitly mentions text messages: it seems clear that internet communication ought to be covered, if challenged. Regardless, this wouldn't run afoul of this. This is similar to restri…

>considering that it considered fake SMS train tickets to be document fraud, even though the law text never explicitly mentions text messages

That has nothing to do with the medium of the ticket and is all about knowingly presenting a fake ticket. The ticket is a document proving your payment for travel. They could be lumps of dirt and it would still be document fraud to present a fake hand of dirt.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#15

Post by Telaneo »

delusional wrote: post #11
Telaneo wrote: post #5

It'll be interesting to see what they can cook up at home. Chat Control was pushed in large part by Denmark, and Minister of Justice Peter Hummelgaard is on record saying some pretty disturbing things regarding the right to privacy online.[1] Now for this, they don't need the entire EU to go along, and any laws already on the books might prove ineffective to protect against means that end up achieving similar goals t…

> Denmark's constitution does have a privacy paragraph, but it explicitly mentions telephone and telegraph That's very much not how danish law works. The specific paragraph says "hvor ingen lov hjemler en særegen undtaglse, alene ske efter en retskendelse." translated as "where no other law grants a special exemption, only happen with a warrant". That is, you can open peoples private mail and enter their private resi…

And yet they wanted to push a proposal where the government would have free access to all digital communication, no judge required. So if it happens through a telephone conversation, you need a judge, while with a digital message, you wouldn't have, since the government would have already collected that information through Chat Control.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#17

Post by delusional »

Telaneo wrote: post #15
delusional wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Denmark's constitution does have a privacy paragraph, but it explicitly mentions telephone and telegraph That's very much not how danish law works. The specific paragraph says "hvor ingen lov hjemler en særegen undtaglse, alene ske efter en retskendelse." translated as "where no other law grants a special exemption, only happen with a warrant". That is, you can open peoples private mail and enter their private resi…

And yet they wanted to push a proposal where the government would have free access to all digital communication, no judge required. So if it happens through a telephone conversation, you need a judge, while with a digital message, you wouldn't have, since the government would have already collected that information through Chat Control.

I don't know where you get your information, but that was not in the chat control proposal I read.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#18

Post by Telaneo »

Svip wrote: post #10
Telaneo wrote: post #5

It'll be interesting to see what they can cook up at home. Chat Control was pushed in large part by Denmark, and Minister of Justice Peter Hummelgaard is on record saying some pretty disturbing things regarding the right to privacy online.[1] Now for this, they don't need the entire EU to go along, and any laws already on the books might prove ineffective to protect against means that end up achieving similar goals t…

Whether internet is covered by § 72 seems undetermined; as far as I can tell the Supreme Court hasn't made a decision on it; but considering that it considered fake SMS train tickets to be document fraud, even though the law text never explicitly mentions text messages: it seems clear that internet communication ought to be covered, if challenged. Regardless, this wouldn't run afoul of this. This is similar to restri…

> Regardless, this wouldn't run afoul of this. This is similar to restricting who can buy alcohol, based purely on age; the identification process is just digital. MitID - the Danish digital identification infrastructure - allows an service to request specific details about another purpose; such as their age or just a boolean value whether they are old enough. Essentially: the service can ask "is this user 18 or older?" and the ID service can respond yes or no, without providing any other PII.

> That's the theory at least; nothing about snooping private communication, but rather forcing the "bouncing" to actually check IDs.

Hopefully the theory will reflect the real world. The 'return bool' to 'isUser15+()' is probably the best we can hope for, and should prevent the obvious problems, but there can always be more shady dealings on the backend (as if there aren't enough of those already).

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#19

Post by tokai »

Telaneo wrote: post #15
delusional wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Denmark's constitution does have a privacy paragraph, but it explicitly mentions telephone and telegraph That's very much not how danish law works. The specific paragraph says "hvor ingen lov hjemler en særegen undtaglse, alene ske efter en retskendelse." translated as "where no other law grants a special exemption, only happen with a warrant". That is, you can open peoples private mail and enter their private resi…

And yet they wanted to push a proposal where the government would have free access to all digital communication, no judge required. So if it happens through a telephone conversation, you need a judge, while with a digital message, you wouldn't have, since the government would have already collected that information through Chat Control.

The ombudsman will say some strong words and everything will continue as is.

Re: Denmark's government aims to ban access to social media for children under 15

#20

Post by stickfigure »

tokai wrote: post #9
casesarplus1 wrote: post #3

How will they achieve that without introducing a requirement to identify yourself on every online platform, which some would say is probably the whole reason for introducing something promoted as being "for the children"™.

With digital ID. They are releasing it in a couple of months. https://digst.dk/it-loesninger/den-digitale-identitetstegneb...

I look forward to being able to buy your porn surfing habits on the darkweb in a few years.
Post reply on HN