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From web developer to database developer in 10 years

notes.eatonphil.com

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Re: From web developer to database developer in 10 years

#41
Great story! I always like to tell developers that they can do anything if you just stick to the fundamentals. It's not such a big mountain as it seems!

The type-casting part is relatable. It definitely feels like we're all being pigeon-holed by hiring managers and ATS systems that categorize us and rank us by keywords and work history. It can sometimes be quite difficult to switch from something like web development to embedded to databases. Good on you for breaking through.

I'm also looking to break into databases. But despite having worked on database libraries, general programming experience, and years of designing and operating systems using databases... there's at least hundreds of people who have been working in databases for years longer and getting one's foot in the door that way is tricky.

Keep sharing your passion, that seems to really help stand out. Not all of us might be in a position to found a company or run a user group in a major city (if it doesn't already exist)... but we can write blogs, attend those meetups, give talks, and help each other out on projects.

Re: From web developer to database developer in 10 years

#42
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it seems like the majority of recruiters barely read past company name and job title. I switched from Dev to SRE at the same company, and within like one week of remembering to update LinkedIn job title, the random recruiter messages switched from Dev to "oh we are looking for someone like you with lots of SRE experience" (having worked in SRE for So yea, it's difficult to get traction for something that isn't…

>> the majority of recruiters barely read past company name and job title This is a failing of the hiring manager. If the recruiter can't tell who is and isn't a good fit, the hiring manager should have corrected the situation or not partnered with the recruiter.

Disagree. The most common reason I've seen for this is the recruiters using largely or entirely automated tools to comb LinkedIn, Github, and many other sources and auto-blasting out those cold emails. They don't even look at the resume until you reply with interest. It's not (usually) the hiring manager's fault. They frequently don't even know that is occurring.

I find that practice disgusting personally and will never do it myself or condone it in others, but it does seem to work.

Re: From web developer to database developer in 10 years

#43
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a way to work around this?

Lie on LinkedIn, get a foot in the door and explain in the interview

Risky. If I interview somebody and their resume is inflated or wrong, at best as a candidate you wasted my time reviewing your resume and scheduling interviews and what not, and now you're starting from a disadvantage because my first impression of you is one of being misled. We're a high-trust organization and anything that causes doubt on your integrity puts you at a disadvantage. If I'm interviewing you, it's because I considered you against the torrent of other applicants, and I likely excluded one that is more qualified than you based on your misrepresentation. That also doesn't work in your favor.

If you are a truly exceptional dev in your previous field and can convince me of that, along with an up-front and transparent explanation of why you lied to me as our first interaction, it is possible to overcome this. However, that is a pretty small pool of people.

Though, it definitely can work at some companies.

Re: From web developer to database developer in 10 years

#44
post #6

> I also wanted to cover what it's like coming from engineering management and founding companies to going back to being an individual contributor. (Spoiler: incredibly enjoyable.) I've done the IC to engineering manager back to IC thing and it is indeed a huge relief to learn that it's OK to do that. My favorite piece of writing on that is The Engineer/Manager Pendulum by Charity Majors: https://charity.wtf/2017/05/…

Hard agree. In fact I think doing the manager/IC transition back and forth several times is what makes you really great at both things. Understanding both sides of the equation from lived experience can be incredibly powerful at making you more effective. At a minimum, your ability to empathize with and understand the motivations/pressure on your manager or reports will help you navigate the tricky spots much better.

Re: From web developer to database developer in 10 years

#45
post #9
post #2

I enjoyed reading this. It could be because I'm thinking of doing more of system/network programming (and learning Zig). I've spent the last 6 years in the JavaScript land and bored of yet-another-bundling or SPA-like pattern. So there's hope that with consistency and patience, one could build expertise in a totally different area

I'm also interested in more low level or systems programming, though I am coming from a mostly backend/system integration background. I feel like a roadblock is that I am self taught, and though I have been doing software engineering professionally for 15 years and software as a job for 20, I still can't call myself an engineer legally. I certainly know I can do the work, but I worry about hiring being wary of a lack…

> I still can't call myself an engineer legally.

May I ask what country you live in?

Re: From web developer to database developer in 10 years

#46

Great story! I always like to tell developers that they can do anything if you just stick to the fundamentals. It's not such a big mountain as it seems! The type-casting part is relatable. It definitely feels like we're all being pigeon-holed by hiring managers and ATS systems that categorize us and rank us by keywords and work history. It can sometimes be quite difficult to switch from something like web development…

Even when I was still in school and looking for internships I could feel this. In CS we learned more about compilers and operating systems, but companies wanted web developers, so IT and IS had a big edge. I did game programming on my own time, so companies would recommend interning with a game company. It was frustrating.

I’ve been working in web development for many years now. It’s okay. I still don’t know what I want to be in the future. I still don’t feel like a “real dev”. But still do some side learning. I’m happy it worked for the writer, and I hope it does for you too.

Re: From web developer to database developer in 10 years

#47

> But my background kept leading hiring managers to suggest putting me on cloud teams doing orchestration in Go around a database rather than working on the database itself. This is extremely annoying. This also means if your first job is doing X, it is very difficult to break into Y even if you know quite well about Y, and even have side projects. I have tried attaching cover letters indicating even if my current ex…

I have come to the conclusion years ago that it is easier to work on a consulting agency, where everyone is "jack of all trades master of none", than trying to apply to regular HR positions.

In agencies, a bit like startups, everyone "knows" everything up to the point of winning projects.

While everyone knows here how famous some of those projects end up being, but if you can take this ongoing pressure to "know" everything, it is much easier to switch between roles and programming stacks, than the usual HR looking for X on the CV and nothing else.

Re: From web developer to database developer in 10 years

#49

Great story! I always like to tell developers that they can do anything if you just stick to the fundamentals. It's not such a big mountain as it seems! The type-casting part is relatable. It definitely feels like we're all being pigeon-holed by hiring managers and ATS systems that categorize us and rank us by keywords and work history. It can sometimes be quite difficult to switch from something like web development…

> The type-casting part is relatable. It definitely feels like we're all being pigeon-holed by hiring managers and ATS systems that categorize us and rank us by keywords and work history. It can sometimes be quite difficult to switch from something like web development to embedded to databases.

When people ask for advice about changing fields, I recommend working at smaller companies that have work in their current domain and also the domain they want to switch to. The most accessible route is to look for a startup that will hire you for your current expertise but that also has needs for the type of work you want to do. Startups are much more willing to let people bounce between domains than a big corporation with a giant org chart and middle managers defending their domains.

I've been at a couple companies that were open minded about interviewing people with backgrounds that didn't match the role. We had a few success stories of people making big changes, including one person who transitioned from tech support to junior developer and then continued to grow.

To be honest, though, hiring people far outside their work history was more often a failure than a success. A lot of the applicants were applying to the job because they thought the grass would be greener on that side of the fence, but then became disillusioned when they encountered the same software engineering challenges in a different domain.

A couple of the people we hired just wanted to jump from domain to domain over and over again. As soon as we started getting them trained up enough to be productive, they demanded to switch to another new domain. In the interview phase it's hard to tell who wants to commit to the new domain versus those who want to explore and switch around a lot.

So I reluctantly admit that I get it. In a job market like this where hiring managers get 100 applicants within hours of posting a job, filtering for people who have the experience instead of candidates who want to learn on the job is a rational choice.

Re: From web developer to database developer in 10 years

#50
post #15

> But my background kept leading hiring managers to suggest putting me on cloud teams doing orchestration in Go around a database rather than working on the database itself. This is extremely annoying. This also means if your first job is doing X, it is very difficult to break into Y even if you know quite well about Y, and even have side projects. I have tried attaching cover letters indicating even if my current ex…

To me it seems like the majority of recruiters barely read past company name and job title. I switched from Dev to SRE at the same company, and within like one week of remembering to update LinkedIn job title, the random recruiter messages switched from Dev to "oh we are looking for someone like you with lots of SRE experience" (having worked in SRE for So yea, it's difficult to get traction for something that isn't…

> and within like one week of remembering to update LinkedIn job title, the random recruiter messages...

The LinkedIn random recruiter messages are a different game than resume screening. Most of those recruiters are using the LinkedIn search tools. Searching for keywords like "sre" is essentially useless because so many people do keyword stuffing. So instead, many recruiters will either be given or will ask for a list of companies to try to pull candidates from.

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