We chose OCaml to write Stategraph
stategraph.dev
We chose OCaml to write Stategraph
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Re: We chose OCaml to write Stategraph
#2> Most systems handle this defensively with locks and runtime validation.
So i work at an org with 1000s of terraform repos, we use the enterprise version which locks workspaces during runs etc.
everywhere else i’ve worked, we either just use some lock mechanism or only do applies from a specific branch and CI enforces they run one at a time.
My question is: who is this aimed at and what problem is it actually solving? Running terraform isn’t difficult - thousands of orgs handle it no problem - the issues I have with it with it have never been around lock contention and race conditions..
Re: We chose OCaml to write Stategraph
#3Is any of this OCaml specific? You can check all boxes with TypeScript.
Re: We chose OCaml to write Stategraph
#4I don't really get what's special about OCaml with these points they raise? Wouldn't almost any strongly typed language do? Wouldn't TypeScript also tick all these boxes?
EDIT: I wouldn't choose TypeScript either for this type of use case, but not for the reasons they state, that's my point
Re: We chose OCaml to write Stategraph
#5I don't really get what's special about OCaml with these points they raise? Wouldn't almost any strongly typed language do? Wouldn't TypeScript also tick all these boxes? EDIT: I wouldn't choose TypeScript either for this type of use case, but not for the reasons they state, that's my point
It's the combination with concurrency that makes this a hard problem.
And OCaml excels at solving that sort of problem. OCaml and Erlang are the only two languages that I'm aware of that have a really clean way of doing this, in most other languages there is always some kind of kludge or hack to make it work and at best you're going to do something probabilistic: it seems to work, even under load, so it probably is good now. Until six weeks later on an idle Tuesday the system deadlocks and you have no idea how it happened.
Re: We chose OCaml to write Stategraph
#6Is any of this OCaml specific? You can check all boxes with TypeScript.
Does TypeScript emit machine code? OCaml gives you this option, if you need it.
Re: We chose OCaml to write Stategraph
#7I like OCaml and have written the "why we chose XYZ language" posts. Most of the time the real answer is "we like it and it makes us feel good to use it". Like the answers aren't wrong per se but they're more post-facto justifications. And that's perfectly fine! I think we should normalize saying that tech stack choices are subjective and preference-based. We're not robots. The social and aesthetic parts of a stack matter to people
Re: We chose OCaml to write Stategraph
#8I don't really get what's special about OCaml with these points they raise? Wouldn't almost any strongly typed language do? Wouldn't TypeScript also tick all these boxes? EDIT: I wouldn't choose TypeScript either for this type of use case, but not for the reasons they state, that's my point
Functional programming is immutable by default. TypeScript and many other typed languages don't really stop you from clobbering things, particularly with concurrency. Rust does. But immutability with GC is a lot easier to use than Rust if you don't need the performance of Rust.
Re: We chose OCaml to write Stategraph
#9I don't really get what's special about OCaml with these points they raise? Wouldn't almost any strongly typed language do? Wouldn't TypeScript also tick all these boxes? EDIT: I wouldn't choose TypeScript either for this type of use case, but not for the reasons they state, that's my point
• Stategraph manages Terraform state, so correctness isn't optional
TypeScript has soundness issues that OCaml does not have
• Strongly-typed data structures catch field errors at compile time
TypeScript does have this, although the guarantees are in practice weaker since libraries may have incorrect type definitions
• Type-safe SQL queries prevent schema drift before deployment
There are TypeScript libraries that offer this, so fair point!
• Immutability by default eliminates race conditions
TypeScript is not immutable by default
• PPX generates correct JSON serialization automatically
TypeScript does not have an equivalent to PPX infrastructure AFAIK. If there is, it's definitely not as widely used within the ecosystem compared to PPX for OCaml.
Edit: Downvoters care to respond?
Re: We chose OCaml to write Stategraph
#10There are many languages that fit these requirements. I don't get the purpose of writing these posts besides a reason to go viral and get clicks talking about your product.
I write OCaml myself, but not for $paid job, it's okay, it's a fine language although with cruft, but it's not the panacea described here.