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What Kindle Means for Android

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Re: What Kindle Means for Android

#41

Post by Zigurd »

swang wrote: post #23

First, can we stop with the FUD about Google "banning" Acer from releasing a phone. This ArsTech article covers most of it but basically Alibaba was planning to release an OS that could run Android apps but was not certified by the OHA. And Acer as a member of OHA has to enforce Android compatibility on their devices to enforce consistency in Android. The same thing people complain about Android (fragmentation) is wh…

It isn't FUD. Google is behaving inconsistently with what they say, and that makes Google a less-than-reliable partner in open source cooperation.

Acer was slapped down, yet Haier, also an OHA member, makes both Aliyun and Android devices.

Google claims Aliyun is "incompatible" and also claims Alibaba is stealing apps, or, at least, distributing them without the developers' permission. So, which is it?

Numerous OHA participate in the OPhone OS development and use. OPhone is roughly equivalent to Aliyun, and is used by China Mobile. Ophone good, but Aliyun bad?

The problem is arbitrariness. For each one of Google's justifications for yanking Acer's chain, there is something in Google's track record that is inconsistent.

Re: What Kindle Means for Android

#42

Post by gonzo »

myko wrote: post #21
Mythbusters wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I think Google's openness is a quasi. Otherwise you wouldn't see them blocking the acer phone.

Acer is free to use Android in any phone they want. They would just have to use a different app store than Google Play. So, Android's openness is absolute. Google's openness (Google Play, Gmail, etc) is not.

point in fact, this is not what happened.

Re: What Kindle Means for Android

#43

Post by gonzo »

ajross wrote: post #39
Mythbusters wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they would if they could. Amazon is not a member of OHA so google has nothing to enforce that ban with.

So you agree with the flip side argument that Google is just enforcing existing business agreements to which all parties are signatories, you just choose to interpret it as uncharitably as possible for Google. Yawn. Business is business. Using open source software doesn't magically absolve you of responsibility to your contracted partners, nor give you the right to jerk your suppliers around. The simple truth is that…

I agreed with you until the last sentence.

Re: What Kindle Means for Android

#44

Post by fpgeek »

swang wrote: post #40
cooldeal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's FUD to point out the inconsistency that comes with on one hand proclaiming Android to be open and with the other blocking a third party company OEM Acer from shipping Aliyun phones under the threat of pulling early access to betas etc. Being Open implies the chance to fork and fragmentation. Google might be doing good for Android, but it seems to be going further away from being "open". AOSP is ope…

> I don't think it's FUD to point out the inconsistency that comes with on one hand proclaiming Android to be open and with the other blocking a third party company OEM Acer from shipping Aliyun phones under the threat of pulling early access to betas etc. What you're saying is misleading. Acer were the ones who broke the rules and Google enforced them, for good reason too. If you sign up and agree to be in an organi…

Of course Archos recently changed their tune and started releasing tablets with Google Play starting with the G9 generation...

Re: What Kindle Means for Android

#45

Post by cooldeal »

swang wrote: post #40
cooldeal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's FUD to point out the inconsistency that comes with on one hand proclaiming Android to be open and with the other blocking a third party company OEM Acer from shipping Aliyun phones under the threat of pulling early access to betas etc. Being Open implies the chance to fork and fragmentation. Google might be doing good for Android, but it seems to be going further away from being "open". AOSP is ope…

> I don't think it's FUD to point out the inconsistency that comes with on one hand proclaiming Android to be open and with the other blocking a third party company OEM Acer from shipping Aliyun phones under the threat of pulling early access to betas etc. What you're saying is misleading. Acer were the ones who broke the rules and Google enforced them, for good reason too. If you sign up and agree to be in an organi…

>What you're saying is misleading. Acer were the ones who broke the rules and Google enforced them, for good reason too.

I find it interesting that you don't think it's misleading for an organization called the "Open Handset Alliance" to have rules stating they can't ship handsets using competing platforms that can run Android apps. Or that it's misleading to call Android open and then withhold key apps, the app store itself and early access which are neither free nor Free or open. So Aliyun/Alibaba is basically screwed because no major OEM can ship their devices regardless of how good their OS is. How is calling Android open not misleading? What other open project has such restrictions? Linux? Firefox? Apache? I don't think even MySQL has such restrictions.

Re: What Kindle Means for Android

#46

Post by swang »

Zigurd wrote: post #41
swang wrote: post #23

First, can we stop with the FUD about Google "banning" Acer from releasing a phone. This ArsTech article covers most of it but basically Alibaba was planning to release an OS that could run Android apps but was not certified by the OHA. And Acer as a member of OHA has to enforce Android compatibility on their devices to enforce consistency in Android. The same thing people complain about Android (fragmentation) is wh…

It isn't FUD. Google is behaving inconsistently with what they say, and that makes Google a less-than-reliable partner in open source cooperation. Acer was slapped down, yet Haier, also an OHA member, makes both Aliyun and Android devices. Google claims Aliyun is "incompatible" and also claims Alibaba is stealing apps, or, at least, distributing them without the developers' permission. So, which is it? Numerous OHA p…

Since this thread is off-topic enough, I'll just end with, 1) didn't hear about Haier but then again, Haier is such a small player in phones so maybe Google doesn't care. 2) OPhone, no clue about compatibility or whatnot and I don't really want to spend more time reading through Chinese documentation on it so you tell me if it is truly equivalent to Ailyun.

When Amazon somehow gets denied access to AOSP by Google, then I'll care. Maybe Google is being unfair with Acer, but then again Acer is making money with Google and vice-versa so I'm not surprised Google is selectively enforcing the policy.

Re: What Kindle Means for Android

#47

Post by recoiledsnake »

ajross wrote: post #39
Mythbusters wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they would if they could. Amazon is not a member of OHA so google has nothing to enforce that ban with.

So you agree with the flip side argument that Google is just enforcing existing business agreements to which all parties are signatories, you just choose to interpret it as uncharitably as possible for Google. Yawn. Business is business. Using open source software doesn't magically absolve you of responsibility to your contracted partners, nor give you the right to jerk your suppliers around. The simple truth is that…

>Business is business

Funny, that reminds me of the scorn heaped on Apple for the patent lawsuits against Samsung. Or on Oracle and Microsoft. Business is business, right? Regardless of other companies getting hurt?

Also reminds me of this post by Gruber supporting Apple on in app purchases:

http://daringfireball.net/2011/03/dirty_percent

It's really ironic how people claim their favorite company is better than the others because of blah blah blah reasons, but when it comes to power plays hurting third parties like this, support it by saying "business is business".

Re: What Kindle Means for Android

#48

Post by eurleif »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #47
ajross wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you agree with the flip side argument that Google is just enforcing existing business agreements to which all parties are signatories, you just choose to interpret it as uncharitably as possible for Google. Yawn. Business is business. Using open source software doesn't magically absolve you of responsibility to your contracted partners, nor give you the right to jerk your suppliers around. The simple truth is that…

>Business is business Funny, that reminds me of the scorn heaped on Apple for the patent lawsuits against Samsung. Or on Oracle and Microsoft. Business is business, right? Regardless of other companies getting hurt? Also reminds me of this post by Gruber supporting Apple on in app purchases: http://daringfireball.net/2011/03/dirty_percent It's really ironic how people claim their favorite company is better than the o…

Samsung didn't violate a contract it signed with Apple. The situations really aren't very similar.

Re: What Kindle Means for Android

#49

Post by swang »

cooldeal wrote: post #45
swang wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think it's FUD to point out the inconsistency that comes with on one hand proclaiming Android to be open and with the other blocking a third party company OEM Acer from shipping Aliyun phones under the threat of pulling early access to betas etc. What you're saying is misleading. Acer were the ones who broke the rules and Google enforced them, for good reason too. If you sign up and agree to be in an organi…

>What you're saying is misleading. Acer were the ones who broke the rules and Google enforced them, for good reason too. I find it interesting that you don't think it's misleading for an organization called the "Open Handset Alliance" to have rules stating they can't ship handsets using competing platforms that can run Android apps. Or that it's misleading to call Android open and then withhold key apps, the app stor…

I don't really want to argue with you over the word, "open" since that seems like where this discussion is heading.

Who cares about that point? Fine, OHA is a bad name. That still doesn't absolve Acer of joining and agreeing to abide by the consortium's rules.

Android is open, Google apps are not. None of Google's apps are necessary to run Android.

Re: What Kindle Means for Android

#50

Post by nivla »

cma wrote: post #28
fluidcruft wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon has what the others (including Google) don't have--an established digital commerce solution that people use and amazing customer support. Goggle falls flat but sort of seems to be trying to work on it, but I don't trust them the way I already trust Amazon. There's zero reason for me to purchase a book on Play instead of a Kindle as far as I can tell.

You forgot to mention that the kindle app is available free on stock android.

And do you realize that you can't download kindle books on to them unless you already own a kindle device. That app was only designed for portability of your existing library. Amazon in no way give up their biggest advantage over android devices.
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