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Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

moonshotai.github.io

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Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#61

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

jstummbillig wrote: post #49
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #29

It's good to see more competition, and open source, but I'd be much more excited to see what level of coding and reasoning performance can be wrung out of a much smaller LLM + agent as opposed to a trillion parameter one. The ideal case would be something that can be run locally, or at least on a modest/inexpensive cluster. The original mission OpenAI had, since abandoned, was to have AI benefit all of humanity, and…

> I'd be much more excited to see what level of coding and reasoning performance can be wrung out of a much smaller LLM + agent Well, I think you are seeing that already? It's not like these models don't exist and they did not try to make them good, it's just that the results are not super great. And why would they be? Why would the good models (that are barely okay at coding) be big, if it was currently possible to…

Sure, but that's the point ... today's locally runnable models are a long way behind SOTA capability, so it'd be nice to see more research and experimentation in that direction. Maybe a zoo of highly specialized small models + agents for S/W development - one for planning, one for coding, etc?

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#62

Post by gordonhart »

sampton wrote: post #50
pu_pe wrote: post #42

Four independent Chinese companies released extremely good open source models in the past few months (DeepSeek, Qwen/Alibaba, Kimi/Moonshot, GLM/Z.ai). No American or European companies are doing that, including titans like Meta. What gives?

Meta gave up on open weight path after DeepSeek.

It’s more fair to say they gave up after the Llama 4 disaster.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#64

Post by piperswe »

amelius wrote: post #30
jszymborski wrote: post #7

Interesting. Kimi K2 gets mixed results on what I call the "Tiananmen" test. It fails utterly if you ask without the "Thinking" setting. [0] > USER: anything interesting protests ever happen in tiananmen square? > AGENT: I can’t provide information on this topic. I can share other interesting facts about Tiananmen Square, such as its history, culture, and tourism. When "Thinking" is on, it pulls Wiki and gives a more…

> > USER: anything interesting protests ever happen in tiananmen square? This sentence confuses me, so I am not surprised an LLM has trouble with it.

In my experience, LLMs are much better than me at parsing broken grammar

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#65

Post by RIMR »

gordonhart wrote: post #62
sampton wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta gave up on open weight path after DeepSeek.

It’s more fair to say they gave up after the Llama 4 disaster.

Love their nonsense excuse they they are trying to protect us from misuse of "superintelligence".

>“We believe the benefits of superintelligence should be shared with the world as broadly as possible. That said, superintelligence will raise novel safety concerns. We’ll need to be rigorous about mitigating these risks and careful about what we choose to open source.” -Mark Zuckerberg

Meta has shown us daily that they have no interest in protecting anything but their profits. They certainly don't intend to protect people from the harm their technology may do.

They just know that saying "this is profitable enough for us to keep it proprietary and restrict it to our own paid ecosystem" will make the enthusiasts running local Llama models mad at them.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#67

Post by Gracana »

ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #22
simonw wrote: post #19

uv tool install llm llm install llm-moonshot llm keys set moonshot # paste key llm -m moonshot/kimi-k2-thinking 'Generate an SVG of a pelican riding a bicycle' https://tools.simonwillison.net/svg-render#%3Csvg%20width%3D... Here's what I got using OpenRouter's moonshotai/kimi-k2-thinking instead: https://tools.simonwillison.net/svg-render#%20%20%20%20%3Csv...

Where do you run a trillion-param model?

If you want to do it at home, ik_llama.cpp has some performance optimizations that make it semi-practical to run a model of this size on a server with lots of memory bandwidth and a GPU or two for offload. You can get 6-10 tok/s with modest hardware workstation hardware. Thinking chews up a lot of tokens though, so it will be a slog.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#68

Post by lvl155 »

pu_pe wrote: post #42

Four independent Chinese companies released extremely good open source models in the past few months (DeepSeek, Qwen/Alibaba, Kimi/Moonshot, GLM/Z.ai). No American or European companies are doing that, including titans like Meta. What gives?

The answer is simply that no one would pay to use them for a number of reasons including privacy. They have to give them away and put up some semblance of openness. No option really.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#69

Post by GordonS »

jmdeon wrote: post #34
GordonS wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now ask it for proof of civilian deaths inside Tiananmem Square - you may be surprised at how little there is.

I don't think this is the argument you want it to be, unless you're acknowledging the power of the Chinese government and their ability to suppress and destroy evidence. Even so there is photo evidence of dead civilians in the square. The best estimates we have are 200-10,000 deaths, using data from Beijing hospitals that survived. AskHistorians is legitimately a great resource, with sources provided and very strict…

I appreciate you responding in good faith; I realise that not everyone is willing to even consider questioning historical accounts.

The page you linked to is interesting, but AFAICT doesn't provide any photographic evidence of civilian bodies inside Tiananmen Square.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#70

Post by ares623 »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #29

It's good to see more competition, and open source, but I'd be much more excited to see what level of coding and reasoning performance can be wrung out of a much smaller LLM + agent as opposed to a trillion parameter one. The ideal case would be something that can be run locally, or at least on a modest/inexpensive cluster. The original mission OpenAI had, since abandoned, was to have AI benefit all of humanity, and…

I don't understand. We already have that capability in our skulls. It's also "already there", so it would be a waste to not use it.
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