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Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

electrek.co

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Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#61
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power at peak times is cheap because load is distributed throughout the day. If everybody ran their heaters at the same time, power wouldn’t be so cheap and we’d reach the same situation we’re in.

Power at peak times is cheap because it's the time of highest insolation.

You’re missing the other side of the equation.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#62
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not familiar with Chinese politics or motivation, but I wonder if it's for the same arguments we have in the US, "save the world" vs. "the strong can do whatever they want". I am not sure China does for the sake of sustainability and environment. Yes I know the end result might be the same but are the reasons the same?

I keep hearing this argument (that China does not care about climate change or the environment so it must be doing it for other reasons) but I just don't understand it. Why would you think they don't care about these things? The Chinese leadership understands several things very clearly: - The country has experienced multiple catastrophic natural disasters in the past. - Such disasters often lead to regime change (lo…

That's speculation, and probably good speculation.

On the concrete side we do know that they also care deeply about local pollution. They made massive efforts to clean the air for the Beijing Olympics, amongst other many other moves to reduce local air pollution.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the US and Germany since the 1970s for putting public funds into early research

US fossil fuel subsidies: 757B$ [0] US solar subsidies: 7B$ [1] [0]: https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-proposals-to-red... [1]: https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/rene...

We are all likely complicit. When gas prices go up people lose their shit so politicians try not to let that happen thus massive subsidies. Plus it's strategically important.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#64

Ignoring the politics, we have to say that China has done the world collectively as a whole a major service in strategically developing and mass producing super cheap solar panels.

Don't forget Germany. If you look at the amount of PV built in Germany early this century and make some admittedly strong assumptions about learning curve, one could argue the Energiewende, then usually called failure, singlehandedly accelerated PV development by decades. I don't recall Germany ever credited on that.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the US and Germany since the 1970s for putting public funds into early research

US fossil fuel subsidies: 757B$ [0] US solar subsidies: 7B$ [1] [0]: https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-proposals-to-red... [1]: https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/rene...

I'm referring to Jimmy Carter's policies that helped kick start solar research prior to the baton being passed off to private industry post a viability threshold being surpassed.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing this argument (that China does not care about climate change or the environment so it must be doing it for other reasons) but I just don't understand it. Why would you think they don't care about these things? The Chinese leadership understands several things very clearly: - The country has experienced multiple catastrophic natural disasters in the past. - Such disasters often lead to regime change (lo…

That's speculation, and probably good speculation. On the concrete side we do know that they also care deeply about local pollution. They made massive efforts to clean the air for the Beijing Olympics, amongst other many other moves to reduce local air pollution.

I'm in Beijing right now. I was also here 20+years ago. The difference is astonishing. Back then the air was filthy, it was hard to breathe, you never saw the sun. Today it is blue sky most days, EVs everywhere, electric scooters, busses, even garbage trucks. The roads are quiet. The air is clean. The high speed rail system is astonishingly good. This really feels in some ways like living in the future. The West is years behind.

Of course there are still a lot of obvious problems to be addressed, but the rate of progress is the really impressive thing.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#67

* only in the middle of the day, when the real price of that electricity may be negative, so it's still sold at a profit

The real price of solar electricity is never negative. Unlike something like oil wells (which really have driven the price of oil negative) you can just turn solar off.

Prices have gone negative because of things like subsidies - which in the short term is a good thing IMHO - it subsidizes industries developing systems to make use of that free (but not negative cost) energy...

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the US and Germany since the 1970s for putting public funds into early research

US fossil fuel subsidies: 757B$ [0] US solar subsidies: 7B$ [1] [0]: https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-proposals-to-red... [1]: https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/rene...

[dead]

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#70
post #36
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's hope someone can do the same for grid-scale seasonal storage. "Excess" solar electricity won't be free in (noon, summer) if you can easily bank it for (night, winter).

Power travels near the speed of light. In theory, the entire globe can be connected and countries with daylight can supply those at night in a cycle.

This isn't going to happen simply because it would introduce enormous strategic vulnerabilities. The first act ina war would be to sever an opponent's grid connections to their neighbors because that would massively erode their ability to maintain an orderly civil society.
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