Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers

torrentfreak.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 225 posts

Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers

#21

Post by stego-tech »

mikkupikku wrote: post #18
stego-tech wrote: post #11

On the one hand, Cloudflare crying crocodile tears for their policy decisions isn’t remotely moving. If anything, their plea for US intervention feels incredibly insincere given that their business has been to defend literal Nazis and Pirates alike for decades, and if you’re going to build a business out of defending bad actors, well, you best be prepared for the consequences. That being said , they’re absolutely rig…

"Defend literal pirates" - imagine if it was the opposite; if the only way to keep a site on the internet without being ddosed into oblivion was to use Cloudflare but also they only permit sites which are approved of by corporate interests. That would be very dystopian. The root problem of course is their de facto monopoly status, as gatekeepers of the internet (if they aren't secretly an NSA run company, the NSA is…

…I find it interesting that you edited the quote to remove their defense of Nazis. Like, that’s just a very odd decision to make when quoting somebody.

And you’re covering the ground I already laid in the original comment:

> …the only way to effectively punish an operator like Cloudflare is to block its entire IP range, despite the harms innocent customers and users will incur. And I can’t quite figure out a way past that under the current piecemeal system of the internet and the financial incentives for consolidation and centralization.

I don’t need eSplaining of my own argument.

Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers

#22

Post by stego-tech »

wbl wrote: post #16
stego-tech wrote: post #11

On the one hand, Cloudflare crying crocodile tears for their policy decisions isn’t remotely moving. If anything, their plea for US intervention feels incredibly insincere given that their business has been to defend literal Nazis and Pirates alike for decades, and if you’re going to build a business out of defending bad actors, well, you best be prepared for the consequences. That being said , they’re absolutely rig…

The courts can absolutely get Cloudflare to comply with orders. The only reason this doesn't happen is that the people asking for the blocking come with a list of IPs.

You’re eSplaining my own argument back to me. Cloudflare’s whinging is they shouldn’t be required to block entire swaths of IP ranges because they have legitimate customer traffic there; their opponents (rightly) state that because of how Cloudflare and the internet works, the only real way to stop these piracy streams are wholesale service blocks, because of how easily specific IP or domain blocks can be bypassed.

The centralization of power is the problem, and as I say near the end:

> …I can’t quite figure out a way past that under the current piecemeal system of the internet and the financial incentives for consolidation and centralization.

Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers

#23

Post by sidewndr46 »

giorgioz wrote: post #2

I hosted a website on Cloudflare and I sent a link to it to a friend on a Sunday. The friend told me the website was down. Turns out Spain blocks IP addresses belonging to Cloudflare during big football matches because some pirate streaming websites are hosted on Cloudflare. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1nm80wz/trying_to_u... I decided to go back to AWS. Frankly Cloudflare is choosing the wrong battle on…

I'm still kinda confused as to how this works. Doesn't every cloud connected or IoT device just die during a football game in Spain?

Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers

#24

Post by microtonal »

ivl wrote: post #12

Cloudflare is right. But, it's a pretty typical EU play. Protecting more established interests but kneecapping progress. In this case, hitting a massive number of small sites, which aren't engaged in piracy, to protect a few large entities from some other small piracy sites. It's what's happening in both Italy and Spain.

But, it's a pretty typical EU play. Protecting more established interests but kneecapping progress.

You mean like that nasty EU law called the DMCA?

(just in case)

Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers

#25

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

tiahura wrote: post #13

Backbone operators in the US should not be allowed to connect to networks that connect to low trust countries.

I've often wondered if that is even possible (whether it is good policy or not is another question entirely). Could we disconnect Russia from the Internet effectively? Let's say that Europe could be pressured to cooperate, what then? Well, here a couple of years ago I finally got the answer I wanted: we can't. China would never abide any such sanction, and there must be a few overland backbones connecting the two (even if I'm wrong here, wouldn't take decades for those to be built).

Likely, the country that wanted to do this finds themselves isolated on their own network, not their target isolated from the internet. Even if that country as is large and powerful as the United States. Perhaps the answer might have been different, 20 years ago or even 15, but everything has changed and there's no going back.

Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers

#26

Post by sidewndr46 »

ivl wrote: post #9
giorgioz wrote: post #2

I hosted a website on Cloudflare and I sent a link to it to a friend on a Sunday. The friend told me the website was down. Turns out Spain blocks IP addresses belonging to Cloudflare during big football matches because some pirate streaming websites are hosted on Cloudflare. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1nm80wz/trying_to_u... I decided to go back to AWS. Frankly Cloudflare is choosing the wrong battle on…

I don't even think that case was from Cloudflare hosting, just providing DDOS protection. And it wasn't a Spanish government policy, but rather a single judge's order.

This is like suggesting the policy of the United States is set by "just a panel of less than 10 judges" and not the Federal government. Not only is SCOTUS part of the US government, it may actually be the most powerful part of the Federal government

Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers

#28

Post by blitzar »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #20
giorgioz wrote: post #2

I hosted a website on Cloudflare and I sent a link to it to a friend on a Sunday. The friend told me the website was down. Turns out Spain blocks IP addresses belonging to Cloudflare during big football matches because some pirate streaming websites are hosted on Cloudflare. https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1nm80wz/trying_to_u... I decided to go back to AWS. Frankly Cloudflare is choosing the wrong battle on…

At first they came for the 4k bluray rips

Then they came for the Linux ISOs

Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers

#29

Post by wbl »

stego-tech wrote: post #22
wbl wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The courts can absolutely get Cloudflare to comply with orders. The only reason this doesn't happen is that the people asking for the blocking come with a list of IPs.

You’re eSplaining my own argument back to me. Cloudflare’s whinging is they shouldn’t be required to block entire swaths of IP ranges because they have legitimate customer traffic there; their opponents (rightly) state that because of how Cloudflare and the internet works, the only real way to stop these piracy streams are wholesale service blocks, because of how easily specific IP or domain blocks can be bypassed. T…

Cloudflare could be told to kick the streams off and they would stop

Re: Cloudflare tells U.S. govt that foreign site blocking efforts are trade barriers

#30

Post by deeth_starr_v »

tiahura wrote: post #13

Backbone operators in the US should not be allowed to connect to networks that connect to low trust countries.

I doubt this would be legal unless proven to be a national security issue (1st amendment grounds).
Post reply on HN