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How I am deeply integrating Emacs

joshblais.com

11–20 of 173 posts

Re: How I am deeply integrating Emacs

#11
post #5
post #4

The more I learn about emacs the more I feel we took the wrong fork on road in terms of the desktop metaphor decades ago.

Emacs is great for people who are fine tinkering with their tools, and adjusting them to their needs and tastes. Emacs improves my quality of life quite a bit. A lot of people hate that, they want a tool that has all relevant to their tasks front and center, all irrelevant invisible or nonexistent, and zero options to tinker with. It should just work, and preferably never change. A middle ground are the browsers that…

> A lot of people hate that

It seems a curious attitude for a developer, though. My curiosity about how things work and the joy I get when I make a computer do the specific thing I want it to do for me are the reasons I program for a living.

Re: How I am deeply integrating Emacs

#12
post #4

The more I learn about emacs the more I feel we took the wrong fork on road in terms of the desktop metaphor decades ago.

The more I learn about emacs the more I'm happy I never joined the cult

Don't waste my time with 70s "ergonomics" (if it can even be called that)

The comparisons with art seem almost to the point of offense to me. You're not building art, you're just building another yet plugin for emacs to do what other people do in maybe 5% less efficient ways but won't spend 2 days automating it

Re: How I am deeply integrating Emacs

#13
The bit about enabling org capture from "outside" Emacs is really interesting. It's been so important for me to have a system that enables me to make notes, todos etc. with extremely low friction. At any time, without my hands leaving the keyboard, I can take a note that is either directly attached to what I'm currently working on, arbitrarily file it somewhere if I know where it should go, or just let it go into the general inbox (the other part of the system is actually getting to those things in the inbox at some point). Up until this point I have had to be "in" Emacs, though, which accounts for most of my time, but not all.

Re: How I am deeply integrating Emacs

#14
post #4

The more I learn about emacs the more I feel we took the wrong fork on road in terms of the desktop metaphor decades ago.

For me, the power of Emacs is mainly that I can do everything with the keyboard, which is not only much faster, but also - to me - much more enjoyable than going through visual menus with the mouse.

For someone not good with the keyboard, it's probably a nightmare. I suppose it's good for power users and terrible for casual users, and I don't know if there's any way to really build one user interface that works equally well for both, it's usually a compromise.

The next best thing I love about Emacs is that I can do anything conceivable with code. This one is an even larger gap between power users and casual users.

I think tools like that are just fated to only attract a select few.

Re: How I am deeply integrating Emacs

#15
This may sound strange, but I actually think we need just ... one editor.

Now, this is not a "we need to favour vim over emacs". I think this is a stupid war, the vim versus emacs war.

What I mean is ... basically most editors do almost the same exact thing. They look at some buffer for a file and help the user modify this. There is a finite number of operations possible. Why do people keep on re-implementing basic things here? Why can it not be solved once and for all and then everyone uses that implementation?

We really should have that; and then people can decide ON THEIR OWN what kind of editor they want to use. Many years ago I started with crimson editor as my main editor on windows. I have since then hopped to many other editors. My favourite one was oldschool bluefish in gtk2. I am not saying it was perfect, but I found it much easier to go on my poor brain than e. g. remembering all vim shortcuts. But, it would need xorg + gtk2, so if that is not available, then I can not edit things - that's bad. That was (and still is) also one reason why I use e. g. nano. But this in turn requires ncurses and I hate ncurses with a passion (nano is great though, I can recommend it for quick ad-hoc editing; for larger things it is not quite as good, but if you have to just change some value in a config file, nano is really great).

Even then I used only like 20% of what bluefish offered (the newer bluefish releases are also nowhere near as good as the old releases, also because GTK really sucks nowadays). I'd like to cherry-pick on my editor and declare what I want it to be, without needing to implement everything on my own. Why can't we transition into this? Why do we need to reimplement everything almost from scratch? That just makes no sense to me.

We live in the age where AI autogenerates code (which they heavily drew from stealing people's code). Why can't AI autogenerate the best, most perfect editor/IDE?

Re: How I am deeply integrating Emacs

#16

I like eMacs but I feel the whole workflow is wrong. Buffers are a stacked tiled window manager inside your window manager. Your browser is a tabbed window manager, and many other applications are also window managers. I wish any sub buffer of any application was for all intents and purposes a dedicated window, so the WM can take care of the rest. Maybe it’s an adjustment that I could make in my workflow, but a globa…

Doesn’t emacs slow down on really long files? I mean like 8,000 lines

No, but that’s not really relevant, my point is more that all buffers should be windows across all applications.

Emacs for me gets slow when syntax highlighting is on and I navigate to a very long line, text-mode does not have highlighting or the slowness. Most emacs slowness is caused by bad plugins, which if you report may be fixed by developers.

Re: How I am deeply integrating Emacs

#17
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emacs is great for people who are fine tinkering with their tools, and adjusting them to their needs and tastes. Emacs improves my quality of life quite a bit. A lot of people hate that, they want a tool that has all relevant to their tasks front and center, all irrelevant invisible or nonexistent, and zero options to tinker with. It should just work, and preferably never change. A middle ground are the browsers that…

> A lot of people hate that It seems a curious attitude for a developer, though. My curiosity about how things work and the joy I get when I make a computer do the specific thing I want it to do for me are the reasons I program for a living.

Completely agree. At the same time, I'd wager a good chunk of developers isn't really in it for a love of computers and tinkering. Not a bad thing per se, just my observation.

Re: How I am deeply integrating Emacs

#18
post #5
post #4

The more I learn about emacs the more I feel we took the wrong fork on road in terms of the desktop metaphor decades ago.

Emacs is great for people who are fine tinkering with their tools, and adjusting them to their needs and tastes. Emacs improves my quality of life quite a bit. A lot of people hate that, they want a tool that has all relevant to their tasks front and center, all irrelevant invisible or nonexistent, and zero options to tinker with. It should just work, and preferably never change. A middle ground are the browsers that…

> [...] people hate that [...]

But that's just culture, and quite easily moldable. Lots of people would also rather gamble watch smut all day, but we decided that it's not the best way to go about life... so we set up a system (school) to manage their learning process, and shepherds them for well over a decade, and then involves them in the economy and in society. Likewise we have cultural mechanisms which try to ensure that people learn essential skills related to nutrition, mobility, relationships, etc.

A lot of this has been eroding in recent years under the banner of convenience, and will likely have pernicious consequences in the coming decades. I posit that letting the insidious patterns broadly drive our approach to computing is similarly dangerous.

Re: How I am deeply integrating Emacs

#19
post #5
post #4

The more I learn about emacs the more I feel we took the wrong fork on road in terms of the desktop metaphor decades ago.

Emacs is great for people who are fine tinkering with their tools, and adjusting them to their needs and tastes. Emacs improves my quality of life quite a bit. A lot of people hate that, they want a tool that has all relevant to their tasks front and center, all irrelevant invisible or nonexistent, and zero options to tinker with. It should just work, and preferably never change. A middle ground are the browsers that…

> A lot of people hate that, they want a tool that has all relevant to their tasks front and center [...]

A lot of people don't even know how to use their tools properly. I remember when I was teaching a number of Perl courses to programmers, they where joking about me using emacs while they where using vi or vim.

But while I watched them while they did their exercises, I constantly heard the "bing" sound when the cursor hit the end of the line. Why? Because they pressed the cursor key and waited for the cursor to travel to the end of the line, then chynged to insert mode to append stuff.

Even I, a humble emacs user, knew that there was a vi command to jump to the end of the line and append.

Re: How I am deeply integrating Emacs

#20

I like eMacs but I feel the whole workflow is wrong. Buffers are a stacked tiled window manager inside your window manager. Your browser is a tabbed window manager, and many other applications are also window managers. I wish any sub buffer of any application was for all intents and purposes a dedicated window, so the WM can take care of the rest. Maybe it’s an adjustment that I could make in my workflow, but a globa…

Doesn’t emacs slow down on really long files? I mean like 8,000 lines

Not these days. Native Compilation made emacs a faster and there have been a lot of other changes. In fundamental-mode, emacs can handle really large files. When opening files literally, it's even faster. I have this 104k line org-mode file and it's reasonably responsive. Reverting it takes a while, but the UI does not hang while the buffer is being formatted according to the mode.

I use a mid tier laptop CPU (6C12T). Emacs is snappy. Compared to what it's like now, it was glacial in 2019.

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