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Solarpunk is happening in Africa

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Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#311

Post by komali2 »

narrator wrote: post #288

All the back to the land decentralized survivalists solarpunk people can do just about everything except for rare earth refining. That's the part of solarpunk that can only happen in China because nobody anywhere wants that in their backyard. One of the more interesting political/economic questions is can a non-authoritarian country that values environmental protection do rare earth refining, or is the ecological har…

I wonder this as well - it seems the most strategic path forward for any nation or community is to localize the supply chain as much as possible, but like oil before there's some things that are just impossible or super difficult to get locally. And unfortunately to find new ways to turn sun into electricity costs money to do and won't happen because the cost of the current method is too low to justify trying to turn sand into solar panels or whatever other thing you might try.

I dream of a solar punk future where basically any community can generate power without any horrifying pollution anywhere in the supply chain. Mirror powered smelters, sand batteries.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#312

Post by lll-o-lll »

worik wrote: post #218
epolanski wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point this is a cliche. There's tons of countries with much cheaper labor. The reasons we build in china are not related to cheap labor, this hasn't been the case from quite some time.

This I recal, the 1980s when Japanese manufacturing was dogy as. By 2000 it was the best The same thing is happening in China They are very good at everything they do, and getting better. Good.

Japanese manufacturing was dodgy in the 80’s? I don’t think so.

“What do you mean doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan”

“Unbelievable”

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#313

Post by bryanlarsen »

mothballed wrote: post #36
epistasis wrote: post #9

The grid is HUGELY expensive, an absolutely massive cost for our electricity. And it would still be expensive in a well-regulated environment where you can quickly and easily get permission to build, without, say, voter ballot propositions illegally blocking a transmission line for years [1]. Here in the US we have a very very poorly regulated environment for adding to our grid, it moves slower than molasses and ther…

Solar bribery is interestingly the exact opposite in some of the USA, where the solar contractors have basically gotten in bed with government for regulatory capture on the market. Most places in my state you need an electrician license, permits, bonding, insurance, a special 'solar' warranty, and inspections if you want solar. I built my house without any inspection or licensing and connected to the electric grid wi…

In my jurisdiction I could avoid permits and inspections by attaching less than 5 square meters of panels to my house, by staying under 60V, and by staying right of the panel. It would be ridiculous to pay over $3k in permits and inspections for $2k of hardware.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#314

Post by mkoubaa »

narrator wrote: post #288

All the back to the land decentralized survivalists solarpunk people can do just about everything except for rare earth refining. That's the part of solarpunk that can only happen in China because nobody anywhere wants that in their backyard. One of the more interesting political/economic questions is can a non-authoritarian country that values environmental protection do rare earth refining, or is the ecological har…

Conspiratorially, if all places were non-authoritarian and did not tolerate cheap refining, a regime change would have to be ordered

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#315

Post by yankwire21 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #310
epistasis wrote: post #9

The grid is HUGELY expensive, an absolutely massive cost for our electricity. And it would still be expensive in a well-regulated environment where you can quickly and easily get permission to build, without, say, voter ballot propositions illegally blocking a transmission line for years [1]. Here in the US we have a very very poorly regulated environment for adding to our grid, it moves slower than molasses and ther…

Where I live in California permitting is such a pain in the ass that a lot of work goes unpermitted. Contractors have a CYA clause in all of their contracts (along the lines of "the owner is responsible for all permits"). Permits significantly increase the time for a job, with inspectors needing to show up to inspect things before something else can go on top, and things that seem reasonable causing complete reworks[…

It certainly is asinine.

The reason more than 180 degrees of bends is not allowed is because it becomes too hard to pull the wires through. If the inspector was there looking at finished work, the wires are already pulled.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#316

Post by usefulcat »

worik wrote: post #218
epolanski wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point this is a cliche. There's tons of countries with much cheaper labor. The reasons we build in china are not related to cheap labor, this hasn't been the case from quite some time.

This I recal, the 1980s when Japanese manufacturing was dogy as. By 2000 it was the best The same thing is happening in China They are very good at everything they do, and getting better. Good.

I don't now about Japanese manufacturing per se, but I definitely wouldn't say that finished Japanese products were considered dodgy in the 80s. Sony, Panasonic, Honda, Toyota, various camera brands, Yamaha.. I recall all of those being at least "pretty good".

I definitely remember the sense that Japanese cars posed a real threat to the American auto industry, and in hindsight that seems to have been well founded.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#317

Post by typpilol »

gffrd wrote: post #296
typpilol wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The industry basically treats any designs sent to China as a loss since they know it will be duplicated I don't think trust has much to do with it

I believe Parent is talking about trust in the ability to deliver on promises, not in handling of IP.

Oh I agree. But I'd say trust is the wrong word

They're reliable, but would you really trust them?

I think there's a bit of nuance there to differentiate the 2 though.

Maybe I'm jaded from working with overseas factories though in ways others wouldn't be.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#318

Post by mbgerring »

It's hard to overstate the degree to which the United States is giving away the future to any country that can produce clean energy technology at scale.

Lithium is abundant in the United States. Nothing in the component chain of solar and battery systems is so complex it couldn't be made here. We could establish trade with African countries like China has, instead of doing these pointless tariffs. But for idiotic cultural reasons, we are not doing any of those things.

The world will permanently shift away from the fossil fuel economy sooner than most people think, and it will disrupt the entire system of dollar-denominated oil that underpins the U.S. empire. It's glaringly obvious where this is headed. And yet!

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#319

Post by Craighead »

yanhangyhy wrote: post #289

This phenomenon is vastly underestimated. Electricity can also amplify the influence of TikTok and Temu — a world no longer constrained by energy shortages, with social media less dominated by the West, and a marketplace for cheap and affordable industrial goods. Together, these forces will essentially curb uncontrolled population growth in any country and gradually raise living standards. (Also pakistan and many oth…

[dead]

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#320

Post by epistasis »

bdangubic wrote: post #254
nandomrumber wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You linked to a four and a half year old news article from a highly politicised source. I wouldn’t call that “documentation”.

buuuut his source is bold enough to fake trump speeches - that takes balls https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/11/03/bbc-report-revea...

The BBC is not the source, they are reporting on another study, directly linked near the very top of the article.
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