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Solarpunk is happening in Africa

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Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#181

Post by beeflet »

manoDev wrote: post #33
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's part of modern double speak Capitalism is really centralized monopolistic oligarchical control in modern media parlance. Distributed empowering democratic grassroots level capitalistic allocation of resources that don't provide centralized control and administration is "socialism".

If the value is staying with local workers (social ownership) instead of being captured by some multinational, that's closer to a textbook definition of socialism than capitalism. How's that double-speak?

The solar panels are produced by outside of the country with companies applying massive economies of scale. I don't know what about this is socialist.

I guess it is vaguely leftist in the sense that poor 3rd worlders are benefiting. But whether a system is capitalist or not does not hinge on this sort of grievance-based thinking.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#182

Post by qayxc »

skandergarroum wrote: post #159
czbond wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that is the negative view - but I didn't view it as that way

haha author here, and this was my favorite interaction so far. Thanks czbond. So no, not fake, not AI, just written under the flu over the weekend. @qarzxc: Not fictional, spoke to users & investors of both companies, see my breakdowns on them for a deeper dive.

> So no, not fake, not AI, just written under the flu over the weekend.

Well, my apologies then. On the bright side you definitely have a super power when under the flu: the ability to perfectly emulate a chatbot in your writing :D

I hope you're back to full health and doing well.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#183

Post by beeflet »

onraglanroad wrote: post #31
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's part of modern double speak Capitalism is really centralized monopolistic oligarchical control in modern media parlance. Distributed empowering democratic grassroots level capitalistic allocation of resources that don't provide centralized control and administration is "socialism".

You're attempting to be sarcastic but that's actually accurate: > Capitalism is really centralized monopolistic oligarchical control in modern media parlance. Of course, because the Capitalists try to control the industry they've invested in. > Distributed empowering democratic grassroots level allocation of resources that don't provide centralized control and administration is "socialism". Yes, it is. When the peopl…

>Of course, because the Capitalists try to control the industry they've invested in.

But does the system eventually result in a small number of capitalists taking power or is it distributed over many capitalists? Not all monopolies are natural.

What is the "work" being done here? Manufacturing or installation? It's not like all of the solar companies are co-ops and contractors.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#184

Post by griffzhowl »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #43
griffzhowl wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not capitalism, it's technology. That can often go together with capitalism, but Russia from 1917-60 and China from 1960-2025, say, are big counter-examples. As are the many poor countries with capitalist economies. Growth in electrification, transport infrastructure, manufacturing and mechanized agriculture will grow any economy, capitalist or socialist

Strongly disagree, you're example is nonsensical as it's normally used to prove the exact opposite. Nearly every quality of life improvement and economic boom in China and Russia during those periods are directly tied to adopting some parts of capitalistic systems.

What quality of life improvements are you thinking of that weren't based on mass electrification and mechanization of agriculture?

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#185

Post by beeflet »

r14c wrote: post #45
baq wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny. I read the article and couldn’t shake the feeling that this is exactly how capitalism lifts whole countries out of poverty.

What's capitalism to you?

People buying and selling things with minimal interference from protection rackets

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#186

Post by Brian_K_White »

epistasis wrote: post #9

The grid is HUGELY expensive, an absolutely massive cost for our electricity. And it would still be expensive in a well-regulated environment where you can quickly and easily get permission to build, without, say, voter ballot propositions illegally blocking a transmission line for years [1]. Here in the US we have a very very poorly regulated environment for adding to our grid, it moves slower than molasses and ther…

Since once all the land is accounted for, there is no such thing as construction without destruction, I am glad that destruction is difficult.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#187

Post by AuthAuth »

samtheDamned wrote: post #166
AuthAuth wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think China deserves that hat tip. Their "commitment" was done years after all the major nations had committed to emissions reduction and seems to have only been done so they could sell the solution. They've made little attempt to reduce emissions and instead scaled their industrial base to capitalize on the demand from nations working to reduce their carbon footprint. The only thing they've done to greenwash…

besides toomuchtodo's nicely made argument, I would like to point that that many "major" nations (I'm assuming that refers to mostly western countries, correct me if I'm wrong) were able to focus on committing to emissions because they gave their dirty work (ie: mass manufacturing, waste disposal, resource extraction) to other countries, especially China.

toomuchtodo's arugments are deluded and ill respond to those in a bit. But I want to be clear that no one "gave" their dirty work to china. Industry in all these countries were priced out.

The Western and Asian governments increased environmental regulations and the cost to do business rose. In China the government ignored its climate obligations and slashed environmental regulations and increased coal investment to drive energy costs down and thus the manufacturing moved there. You think Germany couldnt have cut environmental regulations slapped down a few coal plants and made solar panels?

Thats why there was climate meetings to get everyone on the same track. If everyone is aligned in their goals then the economic hurt is easier to bare. China intentionally captialised on this and I do not think they deserve any praise for it.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#188

Post by czbond »

skandergarroum wrote: post #159
czbond wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that is the negative view - but I didn't view it as that way

haha author here, and this was my favorite interaction so far. Thanks czbond. So no, not fake, not AI, just written under the flu over the weekend. @qarzxc: Not fictional, spoke to users & investors of both companies, see my breakdowns on them for a deeper dive.

@skandergarroum

Do you have more on climate companies? I have been quite interested in the area (for profit, for good... where profit is returned to more "for good")

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#189

Post by mysterypie »

bluGill wrote: post #133
losvedir wrote: post #125

This has got to be ChatGPT, right? There's just a lot of... nonsensical phrasing and sentences? I love the story of it, but I can't take the writing. > This worked great if you were electrifying America in the 1930s, when labor was cheap, materials were subsidized, and the government could strong-arm right-of-way access. It works less great when you’re trying to reach a farmer four hours from the nearest paved road w…

My grandpa (long dead) remembers his dad paying $600 in the 1920s (1930s?) to get electric to the farm. That is the actual cost, not inflation adjusted. Most of the neighbors didn't because that was too much money in those days.

> $600 in the 1920s (1930s?), not inflation adjusted

I consulted the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator:

$600 in 1925 would be $11,264 today

$600 in 1935 would be $14,329 today

A lot of money, but I've heard that it can easily cost $10-20K today to erect a couple of poles to bring power a hundred feet to your property in a rural area these days. Do you know what distance was being covered to bring power to your grandfather?

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#190

Post by warkdarrior »

astroflection wrote: post #84
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #27

> M-PESA, a mobile money platform that let people transfer cash via SMS. This a thing that needs to be more widely known. If you saying, as people here sometimes do, "oh but my new tech could help people move money in poor parts of the world" (not mentioning any specific tech right now) and you're not familiar with M-PESA, then you're just out of your depth and talking foolishly. The real world has already moved past…

The M-PESA transaction fees are high. M-PESA helps fight poverty through the ingenious application of a thousand paper cuts.

According to this page: https://www.safaricom.co.ke/main-mpesa/m-pesa-for-you/tariff...

Fees are high (22-38%) for low amounts, and then they drop into the 1-2% range that is typical of Western credit card networks.

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