Solarpunk is happening in Africa • Hacker News Board

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#31

Post by onraglanroad » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 8:46 PM UTC

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #13

p1necone wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is small businesses selling solar panels to people socialism?

It's part of modern double speak Capitalism is really centralized monopolistic oligarchical control in modern media parlance. Distributed empowering democratic grassroots level capitalistic allocation of resources that don't provide centralized control and administration is "socialism".

You're attempting to be sarcastic but that's actually accurate:

> Capitalism is really centralized monopolistic oligarchical control in modern media parlance.

Of course, because the Capitalists try to control the industry they've invested in.

> Distributed empowering democratic grassroots level allocation of resources that don't provide centralized control and administration is "socialism".

Yes, it is. When the people who actually do the work own it.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#32

Post by whatever1 » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 8:48 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #9

The grid is HUGELY expensive, an absolutely massive cost for our electricity. And it would still be expensive in a well-regulated environment where you can quickly and easily get permission to build, without, say, voter ballot propositions illegally blocking a transmission line for years [1]. Here in the US we have a very very poorly regulated environment for adding to our grid, it moves slower than molasses and ther…

Poor countries have different problems that don’t let decentralization to work.

Local gangs go around and demand protection money and if you don’t pay up your solar panels will unfortunately suffer some “accidental” catastrophic damage.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#33

Post by manoDev » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 8:48 PM UTC

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #13

p1necone wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is small businesses selling solar panels to people socialism?

It's part of modern double speak Capitalism is really centralized monopolistic oligarchical control in modern media parlance. Distributed empowering democratic grassroots level capitalistic allocation of resources that don't provide centralized control and administration is "socialism".

If the value is staying with local workers (social ownership) instead of being captured by some multinational, that's closer to a textbook definition of socialism than capitalism. How's that double-speak?

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#34

Post by tick_tock_tick » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 8:48 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #9

The grid is HUGELY expensive, an absolutely massive cost for our electricity. And it would still be expensive in a well-regulated environment where you can quickly and easily get permission to build, without, say, voter ballot propositions illegally blocking a transmission line for years [1]. Here in the US we have a very very poorly regulated environment for adding to our grid, it moves slower than molasses and ther…

> Decentralized solar plus batteries is already cheaper than electricity + transmission for me at my home in the US.

How do they deal with the cost of storage for anything non trivial completely eclipsing any savings?

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#35

Post by icedshrimp » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 8:48 PM UTC

TrainedMonkey wrote: post #16

I think this is really cool, but math seems off: > A company (Sun King, SunCulture) installs a solar system in your home > * You pay ~$100 down > * Then $40-65/month over 24-30 months But also: > The magic is this: You’re not buying a $1,200 solar system. You’re replacing $3-5/week kerosene spending with a $0.21/day solar subscription (so with $1.5 per week half the price of kerosene) $1.5 week is $6 a month, not $60…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ib-atDnj5jE

video from sunking from 7 years ago where the cost of a basic system was 25¢ per day. Probably cheaper now.

the article wording/numbers seem mixed up but the overall argument holds up when you look at the actual products they're talking about here

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#36

Post by mothballed » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 8:48 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #9

The grid is HUGELY expensive, an absolutely massive cost for our electricity. And it would still be expensive in a well-regulated environment where you can quickly and easily get permission to build, without, say, voter ballot propositions illegally blocking a transmission line for years [1]. Here in the US we have a very very poorly regulated environment for adding to our grid, it moves slower than molasses and ther…

Solar bribery is interestingly the exact opposite in some of the USA, where the solar contractors have basically gotten in bed with government for regulatory capture on the market.

Most places in my state you need an electrician license, permits, bonding, insurance, a special 'solar' warranty, and inspections if you want solar.

I built my house without any inspection or licensing and connected to the electric grid without anyone from the government ever even looking at it or taking money for it. If I wanted to add a solar system, it basically completely fucked everything and I would have had to gone through the normal permitting and inspection system for my house which would have made even building the house basically impossible for me.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#37

Post by epistasis » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 8:49 PM UTC

wiz21c wrote: post #18

wlesieutre wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get how it makes this jump > Then $40-65/month over 24-30 months > replacing $3-5/week kerosene spending with a $0.21/day solar subscription (so with $1.5 per week half the price of kerosene)" in the next paragraph. If it's $40-65/month that's $1.33 to $2.17 per day, not $0.21/day (assuming month with 30 days)

maybe over the lifetime of the installation ? But then they say the battery must be replaced after 5 years... So 5*12 - 30 months = 30 months without paying. So one pays about half 2.17 per day over the 5 years. But that's still about 5 times more than 0.21$/day... I'd love to believe the article, but you're right, the maths seem wrong.

That's in a "bear case" section and honestly is far too bearish, warranties are typically 10+ years for. Unless you buy something super cheap that goes bad and the manufacturer is no longer around.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#38

Post by w10-1 » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 8:50 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #9

The grid is HUGELY expensive, an absolutely massive cost for our electricity. And it would still be expensive in a well-regulated environment where you can quickly and easily get permission to build, without, say, voter ballot propositions illegally blocking a transmission line for years [1]. Here in the US we have a very very poorly regulated environment for adding to our grid, it moves slower than molasses and ther…

> Thanks to all the entrepreneurs and engineers over the past decades

Hat tip also to China's ideological commitment to independence from external oil supplies, as nicely coupled to reducing pollution and greenwashing their image. It's their citizens who sacrifice to make solar power cheap enough.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#39

Post by energy123 » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 8:51 PM UTC

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #34

epistasis wrote: post #9

The grid is HUGELY expensive, an absolutely massive cost for our electricity. And it would still be expensive in a well-regulated environment where you can quickly and easily get permission to build, without, say, voter ballot propositions illegally blocking a transmission line for years [1]. Here in the US we have a very very poorly regulated environment for adding to our grid, it moves slower than molasses and ther…

> Decentralized solar plus batteries is already cheaper than electricity + transmission for me at my home in the US. How do they deal with the cost of storage for anything non trivial completely eclipsing any savings?

Well it doesn't eclipse savings, you can still get about 12% annual ROI in developing countries with a battery.

And many will make do without a battery, just relying on power during the day.

Re: Solarpunk is happening in Africa

#40

Post by drmath » Wed, Nov 05, 2025, 8:52 PM UTC

tomasz_fm wrote: post #6

This article has ChatGPT written all over it

I could handle this style when it wasn't everywhere. But now I've developed a hypersensitivity and can't bear it. It's like suddenly most of the internet is in a language I can't read.