The GNOME/GTK devs are on a mission - they fight down all xorg users.
That's not good.
Gnome Mutter Now "Completely Drops the Whole X11 Back End"
21–30 of 76 posts
Re: Gnome Mutter Now "Completely Drops the Whole X11 Back End"
#22I had to look up what "Gnome Mutter" is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutter_(software) > Mutter is a window manager initially designed and implemented for the X Window System, but then evolved to be a display server ("Wayland compositor"). It became the default window manager in GNOME 3, Gnome alienated some developers around the time of GTK 3, and there have sometimes been regressions, and some opinionated unconve…
I think the GNOME/GTK devs alienated numerous devs. I tried to talk to ebassi but he censored me on reddit as a consequence. He does not like people speaking up against what the GTK devs do.
I have no hope for GTK. It is a GNOMEy toolkit now.
Re: Gnome Mutter Now "Completely Drops the Whole X11 Back End"
#23I had to look up what "Gnome Mutter" is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutter_(software) > Mutter is a window manager initially designed and implemented for the X Window System, but then evolved to be a display server ("Wayland compositor"). It became the default window manager in GNOME 3, Gnome alienated some developers around the time of GTK 3, and there have sometimes been regressions, and some opinionated unconve…
How many X11 holdouts are still around, really? I'm a curmudgeonly old man fond of old tech, but I have still had a Wayland-only setup since early 2020; once Sway was there as a good tiling window manager, and Emacs got its Wayland-ready pure-gtk branch, there was no need to look back. I of course see people here and there on forums express discontent, but I don't think that demographic is big enough to drive both si…
Which demographic do you evaluate? Because I am clearly among the xorg users. I don't even use systemd either.
Re: Gnome Mutter Now "Completely Drops the Whole X11 Back End"
#24Hyper-V connects to a VM desktop using XRDP which uses X. Will that stuff still work? Can you still use gnome through XRDP?
Re: Gnome Mutter Now "Completely Drops the Whole X11 Back End"
#25I had to look up what "Gnome Mutter" is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutter_(software) > Mutter is a window manager initially designed and implemented for the X Window System, but then evolved to be a display server ("Wayland compositor"). It became the default window manager in GNOME 3, Gnome alienated some developers around the time of GTK 3, and there have sometimes been regressions, and some opinionated unconve…
> Maybe this even harder push by Gnome on Wayland will drive even more effort into the alternative software, and continue to fuel the healthy competition that (for better or worst) the Linux desktop is stuck with. Competition in this space has been everything except healthy. Wayland people have been essentially sabotaging X11 development. Example: people wanting to keep X11 alive have been literally banned from the f…
> Example: people wanting to keep X11 alive have been literally banned from the freedesktop.org infrastructure
Yeah - that has been my experience with ebassi etc... too. Also prior to that with Poettering. These people seem on a mission, a crusade. Anyone not conforming to this will be ignored or isolated/banned.
Re: Gnome Mutter Now "Completely Drops the Whole X11 Back End"
#26I had to look up what "Gnome Mutter" is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutter_(software) > Mutter is a window manager initially designed and implemented for the X Window System, but then evolved to be a display server ("Wayland compositor"). It became the default window manager in GNOME 3, Gnome alienated some developers around the time of GTK 3, and there have sometimes been regressions, and some opinionated unconve…
How many X11 holdouts are still around, really? I'm a curmudgeonly old man fond of old tech, but I have still had a Wayland-only setup since early 2020; once Sway was there as a good tiling window manager, and Emacs got its Wayland-ready pure-gtk branch, there was no need to look back. I of course see people here and there on forums express discontent, but I don't think that demographic is big enough to drive both si…
I still find Wayland to be buggier than X11.
it seems to have better display scaling which is useful when I switch between large monitor and laptop screen.
Re: Gnome Mutter Now "Completely Drops the Whole X11 Back End"
#27A decade of a their trademark hard line "you're holding it wrong" ethos will likely already have driven away what people might object to this sort of change.
Anti-Gnome people really need to get over it. We get it, just don't use their software.
until they suddenly drop the other not-their software. as they've done to X11
Re: Gnome Mutter Now "Completely Drops the Whole X11 Back End"
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, no. Let me fix that: Openness, customisation and freedom of choice are great—unless you are offering a software that absolutely refuses to allow customization and freedom of choice, and actively attempts to impose its limitations on the rest of the ecosystem[0], in which case you will get pushback. [0] My favorite example is https://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/3685#no1
There are multiple angles. As the stewards of GTK, they should , IMO, try to keep it flexible and customizable to whatever extent is manageable and reasonable. This post is about Mutter, which is a window manager, which should have very little to do with the app "ecosystem". They can, and should, do whatever the hell they want with Mutter, GNOME Shell, Nautilus/Files, etc. Even in the link you posted, they're talking…
When I complain about Gnome driving away users with hostility, it's mainly their GTK stewardship I talk of.
That, and things like primarily designing the interface for a touch screen, despite PC touch screens not really taking off. Very out of touch.
Re: Gnome Mutter Now "Completely Drops the Whole X11 Back End"
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Maybe this even harder push by Gnome on Wayland will drive even more effort into the alternative software, and continue to fuel the healthy competition that (for better or worst) the Linux desktop is stuck with. Competition in this space has been everything except healthy. Wayland people have been essentially sabotaging X11 development. Example: people wanting to keep X11 alive have been literally banned from the f…
Probably a better reference. https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/12/the_price_of_software... > fascistoid appoach that wayland people had all along the way Ironic to promote a far right dev, and demonizing folks who are sick of his shit.
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Re: Gnome Mutter Now "Completely Drops the Whole X11 Back End"
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, no. Let me fix that: Openness, customisation and freedom of choice are great—unless you are offering a software that absolutely refuses to allow customization and freedom of choice, and actively attempts to impose its limitations on the rest of the ecosystem[0], in which case you will get pushback. [0] My favorite example is https://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/3685#no1
There are multiple angles. As the stewards of GTK, they should , IMO, try to keep it flexible and customizable to whatever extent is manageable and reasonable. This post is about Mutter, which is a window manager, which should have very little to do with the app "ecosystem". They can, and should, do whatever the hell they want with Mutter, GNOME Shell, Nautilus/Files, etc. Even in the link you posted, they're talking…
Would you like to read what an Xfce developer said about GTK stewardship?[1][2]