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UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

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Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#21

Post by alephnerd »

embedding-shape wrote: post #13
toomuchtodo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely no impact. It was departing with ~75 tonnes of fuel and suffered an unrecoverable mechanical failure. https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/flight-tracking-news/majo...

> suffered an unrecoverable mechanical failure But was un-discoverable? Or un-preventable? Seems plane inspectors and safety-related roles were affected and have been furloughed: > But for the people involved in inspecting our planes to ensure they follow Federal Aviation Administration safety standards, the situation is more complicated. While principal aviation inspectors were told to keep working, assistant-level…

The maintenance and inspection tends to be done by MROs, and any institutional issue within UPS's MRO would have been identified before the shutdown by the FAA and other regulators.

But based on your comment history, you aren't from the US, have not ever visited America, do not care to visit America, and haven't interacted with Americans, so I doubt you have on the ground experience with the US. But that also leads to the question of why you even care to comment on our affairs if you dislike us to such a degree.

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#22

Post by roygbiv2 »

justsid wrote: post #4
haunter wrote: post #2

Video of the crash, left (?) engine was already engulfed in flames while taking off https://x.com/BNONews/status/1985845907191889930 https://xcancel.com/BNONews/status/1985845907191889930 Edit: just the mp4 https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1985845862409334784/pu/... There is an incredible amount of ground damage! Just wow, this is very bad https://files.catbox.moe/3303ob.jpg

The damage on the ground is scary to look at. I think the only silver lining here is that it was "just" a sparser industrial area and there weren't any homes. I'm really curious about what the investigation will reveal in a few months. This doesn't look like a "regular" engine fire from a bird strike or so, you would normally expect the flames to come out the back and not over the wing. And at least in theory the MD-…

Looks like a compressor stall on number two engine two seconds into the video.

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#23

Post by avalys »

embedding-shape wrote: post #13
toomuchtodo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely no impact. It was departing with ~75 tonnes of fuel and suffered an unrecoverable mechanical failure. https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/flight-tracking-news/majo...

> suffered an unrecoverable mechanical failure But was un-discoverable? Or un-preventable? Seems plane inspectors and safety-related roles were affected and have been furloughed: > But for the people involved in inspecting our planes to ensure they follow Federal Aviation Administration safety standards, the situation is more complicated. While principal aviation inspectors were told to keep working, assistant-level…

Of course it was not unpreventable, though it might turn out that preventing it would have been unreasonably expensive.

But, the FAA inspectors are not responsible for making sure planes are safe to fly. They are responsible for making sure the people whose job that actually is, are doing their jobs effectively. That’s a critical difference.

It’s UPS maintenance personnel who are responsible for making sure that UPS planes are safe to fly. Yes, it’s possible that there is some institutional failure at UPS, that could have been caught if FAA inspectors were working in the past 30 days, but this isn’t the most likely scenario, and the root cause and responsibility (in this hypothetical) would still lie with UPS and not the FAA and the shutdown.

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#24

Post by [deleted] »

embedding-shape wrote: post #13
toomuchtodo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely no impact. It was departing with ~75 tonnes of fuel and suffered an unrecoverable mechanical failure. https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/flight-tracking-news/majo...

> suffered an unrecoverable mechanical failure But was un-discoverable? Or un-preventable? Seems plane inspectors and safety-related roles were affected and have been furloughed: > But for the people involved in inspecting our planes to ensure they follow Federal Aviation Administration safety standards, the situation is more complicated. While principal aviation inspectors were told to keep working, assistant-level…

[deleted]

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#25

Post by appreciatorBus »

roygbiv2 wrote: post #22
justsid wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The damage on the ground is scary to look at. I think the only silver lining here is that it was "just" a sparser industrial area and there weren't any homes. I'm really curious about what the investigation will reveal in a few months. This doesn't look like a "regular" engine fire from a bird strike or so, you would normally expect the flames to come out the back and not over the wing. And at least in theory the MD-…

Looks like a compressor stall on number two engine two seconds into the video.

I don’t know, that looks like a lot more than just a stall. There was a ton of flame that looked like it was coming out of the front or top of the engine, rather than just something shooting out the back.

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#26

Post by appreciatorBus »

Jtsummers wrote: post #20
filleduchaos wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking off with one engine inoperative (on a multi-engine aircraft, obviously - you aren't going to get anywhere with your only engine gone) is completely normal/within design parameters, albeit undesirable. In fact, it being normal almost certainly contributed to the scale of this accident, since a single engine failure during the takeoff roll isn't considered enough of an emergency to reject the takeoff at high spe…

> The crew wouldn't have had any way to know that one of their engines had not simply failed, but was straight-up gone with their wing on fire to boot. I don't know about the MD-11 itself, but other aircraft from that time period have sensors to detect and report overheat and fire in various parts of the aircraft, including engines and wings.

I’m sure they knew there was an issue, but I don’t think the sensors can differentiate between “your engine is on fire, but if you can shut it down quickly, everything will be cool.” and “half your entire wing is on fire and your engine is pouring flame out the front/top instead of the back”

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#27

Post by octaane »

This is probably the worst way a plane could go down in terms of damage caused. Maximum effect in term of damage. Cargo plane apparently reached V1 (go/no go speed) on the runway, and suffered a catastrophic engine failure. They passed V1, so they knew they were going down. Engine was shedding large debris, including the housing (!!!) which is a shrapnel shield.

They were on fire just as they reached V1.

Plane was fully loaded with 38,000 LB of fuel for 12 hour flight to hawaii. Worst case scenario.

Pilots did the heroic thing - they tried to take off instead at 160 MPH to minimize collateral damage (highway and warehouses at the end of the runway) and crash and die somewhere else, instead of go beyond the runway at that speed. Accelerating a fully loaded jet plane at ground level beyond the runway has obvious consequences. They had one choice.

Instead, they clipped the UPS factory because they were so low, they tried to clear it but did not. Plane then hit the ground port wing down, shearing it off entirely, smearing a fireball of jet fuel across half a mile (not an exaggeration) before the plane flipped. Crew were likely dead by before this, footage shows the cockpit being slammed into the ground like a mousetrap by the flip once the port wing was gone and gravity took the starboard wing over.

Physics took over. Plane flipped and rolled upon loss of port wing, smearing a rolling fireball of the remaining fuel load from the starboard wing for another half a mile.

Louisville is now a firestorm as a result.

Respect to the flight crew; rest in peace, they made the best they could out of a really shitty scenario. They flew it all the way down.

Footage:

https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1985845987684855969?s=46

https://x.com/faytuksnetwork/status/1985849267152699741?s=46

https://x.com/faytuksnetwork/status/1985848132500885995?s=46

https://x.com/faytuksnetwork/status/1985843126934614297?s=46

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#29

Post by octaane »

This is probably the worst way a plane could go down. Maximum effect in term of damage. Cargo plane apparently reached V1 (go/no go speed) on the runway, and suffered a catastrophic engine failure. They passed V1, so they knew they were going down. Engine was shedding large debris, including the housing (!!!) which is a shrapnel shield.

They were on fire just as they reached V1.

Plane was fully loaded with 38,000 LB of fuel for 12 hour flight to hawaii. Worst case scenario.

Pilots did the heroic thing - they tried to take off instead of accelerate past the runway at ground level at 160 MPH to minimize collateral damage (highway and warehouses at the end of the runway) and crash and die somewhere else.

Instead, they clipped the UPS factory because they were so low, they tried to clear it but did not. Plane then hit the ground port wing down, shearing it off entirely, smearing a fireball of jet fuel across half a mile (not an exaggeration) before the plane flipped. Crew were likely dead by then, footage shows the cockpit being slammed into the ground by the flip once the port wing was gone and gravity took the starboard wing over.

Plane flipped, continued to smear half of the fuel load for another half a mile.

Louisville is now a firestorm as a result.

Footage:

https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1985845987684855969?s=46

https://x.com/faytuksnetwork/status/1985849267152699741?s=46

https://x.com/faytuksnetwork/status/1985848132500885995?s=46

https://x.com/faytuksnetwork/status/1985843126934614297?s=46

Re: UPS plane crashes near Louisville airport

#30

Post by numpad0 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #13
toomuchtodo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely no impact. It was departing with ~75 tonnes of fuel and suffered an unrecoverable mechanical failure. https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/flight-tracking-news/majo...

> suffered an unrecoverable mechanical failure But was un-discoverable? Or un-preventable? Seems plane inspectors and safety-related roles were affected and have been furloughed: > But for the people involved in inspecting our planes to ensure they follow Federal Aviation Administration safety standards, the situation is more complicated. While principal aviation inspectors were told to keep working, assistant-level…

Aviation regulations are updated in FAFO basis("written in blood" is the more common version).
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