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Tenacity – a multi-track audio editor/recorder

tenacityaudio.org

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Re: Tenacity – a multi-track audio editor/recorder

#41

Post by cookiengineer »

LeoWattenberg wrote: post #35
cookiengineer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, technically the reason for the fork was the implanted backdoor that was executing a binary coming from Muse groups server, hidden as telemetry and an update check. It's not a well built backdoor and the code is easy to spot, as there's not a lot of other http related code in audacity itself. edit: Check the au3/src/update/UpdateManager.cpp, they're still not hiding this better after all that happened, lol. [1]…

You are aware that VLC, LibreOffice and many other FOSS apps have an update checker?

The problem is not the update check itself, but what the server in Moscow returns. That's the whole point and the reason of me mentioning it.

Re: Tenacity – a multi-track audio editor/recorder

#42

Post by CamperBob2 »

cookiengineer wrote: post #41
LeoWattenberg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware that VLC, LibreOffice and many other FOSS apps have an update checker?

The problem is not the update check itself, but what the server in Moscow returns. That's the whole point and the reason of me mentioning it.

Not good to hear they're based in Moscow, but that ship has presumably already sailed and sunk if you're running the auto-update code in an existing Audacity installation.

What other concerns besides national origin exist with this code? Nothing seems to qualify as a "back door," certainly.

Re: Tenacity – a multi-track audio editor/recorder

#43

Post by engeljohnb »

forgotpwd16 wrote: post #4
ktpsns wrote: post #2

An audacity fork. Reason for forking described at https://tenacityaudio.org/docs/_content/Introduction_and_Mot... . Their own summary: > at the primary reasons were attempts at adding telemetry and a new desktop privacy policy [by the new audacity maintainers] Previously discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34835200

So, 4 years since the initial forks and 2 years since the Audacium merge, how Tenacity (basically Tenacity&Saucedacity&Audacium) compares to Audacity?

I've been using both lately. Last I checked, Tenacity was missing some of Audacity's best new features such as real-time effects. Also, Tenacity crashes constantly, whereas Audacity only crashes a lot (on my Thinkpad running Fedora).

Re: Tenacity – a multi-track audio editor/recorder

#44

Post by duped »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #40
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has a browser, not everyone has a DAW, and even fewer people have the same DAW. Doing this in a browser is ridiculously inefficient. But if you just want a limited-track scratchpad for virtual jamming, it's the most accessible option.

The bigger, broader problem is that "virtual jamming" just doesn't seem to have taken off the way some folks thought it would. It's not a useless thing to be able to do, but there are few people who seem to want it at the center of their music-making activity. At least that is the way it seems to me. It initially appeared to be an immensely cool new capability, and in many ways it really is. It just isn't a thing tha…

I've seen a few products that are in essence, "virtual jamming" but they're not marketed like that. For example a bunch of live sound mixers come with an iOS app for live monitoring that you can use to feed monitor mixes straight to musicians' devices. Super useful if you have an iPad controlling Mainstage, a monitor mix, and sheet music. Another that's less obvious are live transcription/hearing assistance where you want to use your phone to tap into the output of the recording console's mix, or a translation/audio description mix.

Re: Tenacity – a multi-track audio editor/recorder

#45

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

duped wrote: post #44
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger, broader problem is that "virtual jamming" just doesn't seem to have taken off the way some folks thought it would. It's not a useless thing to be able to do, but there are few people who seem to want it at the center of their music-making activity. At least that is the way it seems to me. It initially appeared to be an immensely cool new capability, and in many ways it really is. It just isn't a thing tha…

I've seen a few products that are in essence, "virtual jamming" but they're not marketed like that. For example a bunch of live sound mixers come with an iOS app for live monitoring that you can use to feed monitor mixes straight to musicians' devices. Super useful if you have an iPad controlling Mainstage, a monitor mix, and sheet music. Another that's less obvious are live transcription/hearing assistance where you…

That's a completely different concept from "virtual jamming", which requires moving audio back and forth over a WAN.

The sort of live sound mixers you're describing just send control signals between the pad and the mixer, no audio flows to or from the pad.

Re: Tenacity – a multi-track audio editor/recorder

#46

Post by duped »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #45
duped wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a few products that are in essence, "virtual jamming" but they're not marketed like that. For example a bunch of live sound mixers come with an iOS app for live monitoring that you can use to feed monitor mixes straight to musicians' devices. Super useful if you have an iPad controlling Mainstage, a monitor mix, and sheet music. Another that's less obvious are live transcription/hearing assistance where you…

That's a completely different concept from "virtual jamming", which requires moving audio back and forth over a WAN. The sort of live sound mixers you're describing just send control signals between the pad and the mixer, no audio flows to or from the pad.

There are monitoring apps that do send audio to the device. I'm not talking about mix control apps. These are wireless replacements for dedicated monitor mixes that run over WiFi.

Re: Tenacity – a multi-track audio editor/recorder

#47

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

duped wrote: post #46
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a completely different concept from "virtual jamming", which requires moving audio back and forth over a WAN. The sort of live sound mixers you're describing just send control signals between the pad and the mixer, no audio flows to or from the pad.

There are monitoring apps that do send audio to the device. I'm not talking about mix control apps. These are wireless replacements for dedicated monitor mixes that run over WiFi.

Right, but those are entirely different from the control protocols used between the pad and the mixer ...

... and it is still different from virtual jamming, which more or less definitionally requires a WAN. If you're all within wifi range of the mixer, you're actually jamming :)

Re: Tenacity – a multi-track audio editor/recorder

#48

Post by cookiengineer »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #42
cookiengineer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not the update check itself, but what the server in Moscow returns. That's the whole point and the reason of me mentioning it.

Not good to hear they're based in Moscow, but that ship has presumably already sailed and sunk if you're running the auto-update code in an existing Audacity installation. What other concerns besides national origin exist with this code? Nothing seems to qualify as a "back door," certainly.

Set the system language and timezone, the IP and originating ASN, to areas where APT28/APT29 is having active malware campaigns and see whether you'll receive a sample. Pretty simple.

The real question is whether they have changed their C2 behaviors since Valentine's day in 2023, and whether or not the AstraL1nvx botnet operator images are still available publicly.

Re: Tenacity – a multi-track audio editor/recorder

#49

Post by LeoWattenberg »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #39
LeoWattenberg wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After its inception, Tenacity unfortunately tackled an irrelevant, yet opinionated part of development first: The build system, together with any internal variables saying "audacity" getting replaced with "tenacity". As such, a lot of the work that's gone into it don't manifest to users, and merging any upstream changes takes needlessly long. As a result of this, Tenacity fell behind upstream a lot, being stuck somew…

The things that are happening to Audacity 4 have made me ponder doing the opposite: taking Ardour and stripping it down to make an audio file editor ...

A waveeditor inside a DAW is very helpful anyway; it's the place where you can chop up source files to become loops, and where you can throw in stretch markers to conform fluctuating tempo in the source to your beat. And once you have that going, there's very little in the way of having a template which only shows you that.

In Audacity, our goal is to keep it extremely approachable for beginners, so for us the idea of having one view of a clip in context of the project and a different view in which you only see the clip is something we'd rather not do. A wave editor window or panel separate from the main project timeline is however the industry standard, and as such it might be exactly the sort of feature which would be very at home in Ardour.

Re: Tenacity – a multi-track audio editor/recorder

#50

Post by LeoWattenberg »

cookiengineer wrote: post #41
LeoWattenberg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware that VLC, LibreOffice and many other FOSS apps have an update checker?

The problem is not the update check itself, but what the server in Moscow returns. That's the whole point and the reason of me mentioning it.

There is no server in Moscow, and I don't think there ever was. Muse Group left their original office in Kaliningrad for Cyprus pretty much the second the war started, and at this point has no offices or employees left in Russia. The servers always have been bog-standard cloud things, so Cloudflare, DigitalOcean, aws via Netlify and such.
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