to paraphrase: You wouldn't steal a handbag. You wouldn't steal a television. You wouldn't steal a DVD. Downloading someone's content for AI training is stealing. Stealing is a crime. really, really happy that someone is calling out data-harvesting for what it really is.
Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP
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Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP
#52This will be litigated and I have a feeling OpenAI/Anthropic/Claude/MistralAI will win, since we've been down similar roads before[1]. With that said, AI slop will never be a replacement for human creativity, and while AI is pretty incredible technology, I'm actually way more bullish on people.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Unive....
Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP
#53Human learning is transformative. It takes time. Time, not money, is the criteria for value to human life. Humans can re-draw in styles they see and the law sees it as transformative work. Humans draw conclusions from learning and apply it to other fields - that’s natural intelligence. If AI helps humans make more new, transformative work, not the same characters as the studios, not the same plots, then the studio sh…
There’s certainly a difference with AI. Not only can it reproduce exactly the same characters - in fact I doubt you can train the style without this ability - it puts those characters in reach of crayon-age children at a professional capacity. This crosses the line between copying and enabling IP theft in my mind. While I don’t agree with our current IP laws, the ease and rapidity of this seems like a real problem. How long before some kid in a third world country can produce a feature length Ghibli-esque movie and distribute it online? And how much will this dilute their brand etc? Is it really so much to ask the AI companies to filter their training sets?
Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP
#54I am still torn on this issue. On the one hand, it feels like a copyright violation when other people's works are used to train an ML model. On the other hand, it is not a copyright infringement if I paint a picture in the Studio Ghibli style myself. The question is whether removing a ‘skill requirement’ for replication is sufficient grounds to determine a violation.
It is a tough issue, but legalese will probably start from where and on what and how did this thing train on in order to be able to produce such results. It's similar to (guitar) amp modeling. Eventually they will either have to remove it or license it. I don't see other way. What makes it challenging is that vast majority of things that it was trained on can make a similar claim and it opens the floodgate. Outcome is either youtube-like thing where things exist in certain capacity, but not full or alternative is Napster like destiny where it gets banned altogether. Stakes are now a bit too high for Napster scenario. OpenAI might have a youtube-like angle for licensing with its Sora thing which seems to be turning into its own social network of sorts.
Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP
#55End fair-use protection for harvesting. Otherwise creators will be forced to use new forms of anti-piracy.
Google has been harvesting for a quarter of a century, imo that cat has been out of the bag for quite a while now.
Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP
#56Interesting to see how people feel about copyright law. If it’s a them the individual downloading IP it’s screw those evil IP holders. If it’s OpenAI we’ll screw OpenAI!!
I for one am interested to see how courts globally figure out what is acceptable or not. The problem imo is the cat is already out of the bag. No government is going to stop progress in LLM. I also have to wonder if we are better off in society to allow this type of IP infringement, not thinking about copying art style but being able to ingest research and other important pieces of information.
Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP
#57Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP
#58In the world of tattooing, it’s frowned upon for a tattoo artist to take another tattoo artist’s original work and replicate it without permission, yet it’s common practice to take well known IP (Pokémon, Studio Ghibli, etc) and tattoo that on a client. The ethical boundary seems to be between whether the source artwork was created by an individual vs. a corporation.
I'd argue that if an art piece is famous enough, then it ought to become "public". In the sense that, yes, the artist made it and it became famous, but once it reaches a certain scale of fame, it means that the public itself made the work famous. So it's a kind of co-creation (eg for instance the fact that people were writing fan-fiction about Harry Potter or whatever, contributing to the fame of the book, etc). So in this case, after it has reached a sufficient level of fame, it should become public work
Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP
#59I am still torn on this issue. On the one hand, it feels like a copyright violation when other people's works are used to train an ML model. On the other hand, it is not a copyright infringement if I paint a picture in the Studio Ghibli style myself. The question is whether removing a ‘skill requirement’ for replication is sufficient grounds to determine a violation.
it's a form of slavery when someone is profiting off the looong and hard, concentrated work of others without reimbursing them adequately. that's why piracy Robin Hood Style is fine, but corporate piracy is not. I downloaded a Ghibli movie because I could't afford the DVD. I didn't copy it on VHS then to sell it via e-commerce to 1000 people. AI companies grabbed IP and pull hundreds of thousands of customers with it…
Can we not use loaded words like slavery which just cheapens real slavery?
Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP
#60I am still torn on this issue. On the one hand, it feels like a copyright violation when other people's works are used to train an ML model. On the other hand, it is not a copyright infringement if I paint a picture in the Studio Ghibli style myself. The question is whether removing a ‘skill requirement’ for replication is sufficient grounds to determine a violation.
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