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Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

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Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#31

Post by ForHackernews »

sim7c00 wrote: post #17
rcvassallo83 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it violated the spirit the law but not the letter.

HOW? - why say such a thing and not _show_ it. show the letter that was not violated and where this spirit lives. so many people giving their feelings about laws, about 1s and 0s. -_- what is this stack overflow?

Laws are not code, they are subject to interpretation by the judiciary. The spirit of the law is that transformative use is fair use, but at the time those laws were written no one had conceived of generative AI.

It seems very reasonable to me that we as a society might stop and reassess. It is not a foregone conclusion that all the treasure of humanity be handed over to @sama for a tuppence.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#32

Post by ethmarks »

toinewx wrote: post #6

It's quite obvious that OpenAI benefited from training on Ghibli material.

That's not relavent. You can't sue someone for benefitting from your work. You can sue someone for intellectual property theft, which is what OpenAI did.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#33

Post by nrjames »

In the world of tattooing, it’s frowned upon for a tattoo artist to take another tattoo artist’s original work and replicate it without permission, yet it’s common practice to take well known IP (Pokémon, Studio Ghibli, etc) and tattoo that on a client. The ethical boundary seems to be between whether the source artwork was created by an individual vs. a corporation.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#34

Post by elzbardico »

specproc wrote: post #27
elzbardico wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. bad analogy.

Stealing my time and attention. Much more bothered about advertising in my face than IP infringement.

In exchange for a service. It is the way you pay it. You can simply refuse to transact.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#35

Post by dschu »

matsemann wrote: post #25

How have they gotten the "Studio Ghibli" look into the training data? Have they actually bought all the movies, or how does it work?

I guess it’s like

1) Download Ghibli film material from an arrrr site. Extract frames using ffmpeg. Pay someone $1 per week in Nigeria to add metadata for each (or some) frame(s).

2) ???

3) Profit

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#36

Post by trollbridge »

ekianjo wrote: post #23
blibble wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

willful commercial copyright infringement at scale is a felony

Traiñing models is not copyright infrigement

Generating obviously infringing material is, though, even if there are lots of intermediate steps to do so.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#37

Post by [deleted] »

zwnow wrote: post #11
mafriese wrote: post #5

I am still torn on this issue. On the one hand, it feels like a copyright violation when other people's works are used to train an ML model. On the other hand, it is not a copyright infringement if I paint a picture in the Studio Ghibli style myself. The question is whether removing a ‘skill requirement’ for replication is sufficient grounds to determine a violation.

Why are you torn on the issue? Its not a secret many original IPs were stolen therefor its a violation. None of the training data was originally drawn by OpenAI. OpenAI also actively monetizes that work.

[deleted]

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#38

Post by maplethorpe »

mafriese wrote: post #5

I am still torn on this issue. On the one hand, it feels like a copyright violation when other people's works are used to train an ML model. On the other hand, it is not a copyright infringement if I paint a picture in the Studio Ghibli style myself. The question is whether removing a ‘skill requirement’ for replication is sufficient grounds to determine a violation.

The language used to describe LLM behaviour such as "training" and "reasoning" has led people to treat them the same as humans, instead of a new and different entity that requires us to update our set of rules.

If I was the first person to invent a car, for example, and I named its method of locomotion "walking", would you treat it the same as a human and let it "walk" in all the same places humans walk? After all, it's simply using kinetic energy and friction to propel itself along the ground, as we do.

Because a car is so obviously different to a human, we intuitively understand it requires an alteration to our rules in order for us to coexist peacefully. Since LLMs are so abstract, we don't intuitively understand this distinction, and so continue to treat them as if they should be bound by the same rules and laws as us.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#39

Post by ekianjo »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #19
mafriese wrote: post #5

I am still torn on this issue. On the one hand, it feels like a copyright violation when other people's works are used to train an ML model. On the other hand, it is not a copyright infringement if I paint a picture in the Studio Ghibli style myself. The question is whether removing a ‘skill requirement’ for replication is sufficient grounds to determine a violation.

It is absolutely infringement if you paint a picture in Ghibli style. You just have fair use to infringe in a personal, noncommercial, educational, etc. purpose. Fair use is a defense to infringement, like self defense is a defense to homicide. If you infringe but are noncommercial, it is more likely to be ruled fair use. If Disney did a Ghibli style ripoff for their next movie, that is clearly not fair use. OpenAI i…

> It is absolutely infringement if you paint a picture in Ghibli style.

Of course not because by this twisted logic every piece of art is inspired by what comes before and you could claim Ghibli is just a derivative of what came before and nobody has any copyright then...

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#40

Post by mongol »

awakeasleep wrote: post #8

To me, it was a tasteless and awful act, but not illegal. Anyone else see that distinction?

I don't see why it would not be illegal. I don't see the difference between downloading or copying a movie for watching on a TV or for training AI, from copyright point of view
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